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Evad_Flor

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About Evad_Flor

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  1. The flaw with this concept is that the entire map is already under someone's control 30 minutes into the game. Slowly growing stronger is not likely to happen when your second chance spawning into reality automatically attacks a stronger team. Here's a suggestion that I got. What if the second chances were small allies to winning factions? For example, if Night Elves win on Kalimdor the Horde players can choose to become Draenei on Azuremyst Isle and be supportive allies to them. If Horde wins against Night Elves, they can choose to be Goblin allies controlling Ratchet, Everlook, Gadgetzan, Kezan and Bilgewater Harbor. If Scourge defeats NA, they can choose to be undead allies like undead Sylvanas, Dreadlords and etc. With such a design you don't have the chaos caused by suddenly having a new powerful enemy army spawn inside your empire. This would instead award winning players with a new potential ally providing support & utilities. It would make winning teams even stronger but that's the tradeoff in the design.
  2. @TheVinylRaider You believe that second chance as a "solo faction" option for players who lost the game is an imbalance in the core game design? That how it's been set up, it cannot ever be something balanced? Second chance solo factions must be made strong enough to stand on their own which makes them naturally stronger than a starting faction. How does a second chance faction get a saying in the global war if they are not powerful? By the time second chances become available, the entire map have already been conquered by someone, so you can't get a peaceful start. All second chances spawn inside the territory of a team with 2 players and 450-600g/min economy. To stand a chance against that, they must be made strong. Do you think that the second chances should have a completely different system? If so, do you have any suggestions on what to change?
  3. @Talinn It's true that if you spread the actions of units out then the lag is reduced. The complaint of large scale battles is focused on the limitations of a players attention, max 12 selected units and the lag caused by having hundreds units in one place fighting. I agree that the max unit cap should be lowered. However, I remain uncertain about the solo factions, should the max unit limit be based upon which faction you play? So a North Alliance faction could have a limit of 200, a South Alliance faction a limit of 250 and a solo faction like Fel Horde be limited to 300. You talked about revamping the wood system, I'm guessing you're talking about having units and heroes cost wood. I personally think that reviving heroes, training elites, catapults and big units should have a wood cost to them. Here's an example: Normal units costs 50% of their gold cost in wood. A unit that costs 20g also costs 10w to train. Reviving heroes costs 200% of their gold cost in wood. Reviving a hero costs 100g + 200w. Training an elite costs 150% of their gold cost in wood. 75g + 115w . A catapult costs 250% of their gold cost in wood. 30g + 150w. I also think that it would be interesting to consider revamping the food system in Awlr. At the moment, all factions practically have enough food buildings to reach 300 food from the start. Well, what if we reduced the amount of food all buildings give so that players might only have capacity for 100-150 units at the start and need to build the rest? A farm that gives 6 food recuded to giving 3 food, Castle from 40 to giving 20 and etc. The food system is never a factor in the game and it used to be a valuable resource you had to balance. If you think about Melee Warcraft, a Farm that gives 6 food can provide for 3 Footman units. Well, in Awlr all units costs 1 food so a farm would logically give 3 food to keep the same ratio. If you were to combine the wood cost and the food cost revamp ideas, then there is a lot more a player needs to do economically before he's ready to spam hundreds of units in a single battle. The inflation of gold can have a reduced effect on the game by increasing the importance of wood and food by making them more scarce. When it comes to Teleport Scrolls, there's too little time to react. The element of surprise is such a significant advantage. What I would change about Teleport Scrolls is to only allow players to teleport to completed main buildings with 72 units instead of 96. Sneaky teleport surprises inside enemy bases becomes a weaker strategy. Attacks via sailing in boats become more prevalent instead which I think is good.
  4. Here is the original post with the poll: Azeroth Wars lategame have not remained the same over the past 10 years. Here's a few things that have changed the lategame over the past year: 1. Allying is now restricted. 2. Gold income inflation. 3. Available second chances with large starting armies. 4. More powerful items (and where to find them). 5. Main faction buildings made very durable. 6. Solopaths and leaving ally system. All of this and more have changed lategame over the years. On top of the lategame changing, more players are also still playing when it's lategame. The average playtime in Azeroth Wars have increased dramatically. A game that used to have 6 players leaving in the first 20 minutes are now often seeing 8 players still fighting 45 minutes into the game. Overall, I see increased playtime as a win, it's not an easy thing to accomplish. However, there's multiple things that happens in the lategame that I and others find to be unenjoyable. Now that people are spending more of their playtime in the lategame I think it's good to discuss it. Lategame Concerns The 3rd question in the poll is a collection of matters that I've heard people be unsatisfied with. Here I'll explain those concerns in a little more detail. You can answer multiple times in the 3rd question so you can pick and choose which of the 7 subjects you don't feel happy with currently. 1. TP Scrolls. Lategame can easily become a teleportation game where an attacking player surprises someone by teleporting close or inside their base with a large army. The defender often have too little time to stop the teleport and must instead teleport his whole army nearby to defend. The majority of all lategame attacks are done by building something and teleporting to the building and as a defender it can be very hard to predict and protect yourself against such attacks. A building can be teleported to by many at the same time so in worst case scenario 2 armies teleports in which is almost 200 units max. 2. As game progresses, the physical damage of units increases and so does armor to balance it out. In Azeroth Wars, the magic damage dealt by hero squads increases fast while there's no counter balance to that. There's almost nothing a player can do to protect his regular units from heavy AoE magic damage. As a result, the lategame can often become dominated by hero squads capable of killing hundreds of units very quickly. 3. Every unit costs 1 food and limit is 300 food. In the lategame you often have no more upgrades to research, you've got a lot of gold and a large empire. You only have 1 hero squad. In this situation you often have to train large amounts of units to fight everywhere in your large empire. This is problematic since you can only control 12 units at the same time and the game becomes unstable with thousands of units moving and fighting all at the same time. 4. Gold inflation has been happening for years and have reached high levels. In the lategame, you've researched everything and the only thing to spend gold on is training cheap units. All strong units have a limit on them. Since there's a lot of gold, situations where there's a long spam war between 2 sides are becoming more common. If both sides have over 10k gold, these types of spam wars can last for a very long time with there being a stalemate. 5. To counter surprise aim capitals from sneaky players coming from boats or with a teleport scroll, the armor and health of capitals have been increased to very large levels to give defenders enough time to react. However, some players think the durability might have reached levels that are too high. For factions that don't have good units for destroying buildings, it can take a really long time destroying one main building. 6. Second chances gives players hope. Some that had a bad game can get a fresh start on better terms. For winning players, they can become a problem. A Scourge player that is busy fighting South Alliance to then see Ebon Blade coming from inside his territory. Fel Horde fighting North Alliance to then be surprised by a 100 unit army Illidari in Outland. C'thun surprising Horde players while they're fighting overseas. The result of giving defeated players a second chance is that it makes the game a lot harder for the winning players. It's a natural consequence that have brought some dissatisfaction among players. 7. The new allying system is regulated to ensure that a faction can't ally whoever they want. In general, "solo factions" not allowed to ally anyone. Starting factions not allowed to change allegiance until their ally have left the game. Then there's a few combinations on top of this that are not allowed. This makes the system very confusing for everyone and most people don't know when they can ally somebody else. The restrictions and the confusion combined results in you seeing very few people changing allies in the lategame. There's been several players expressing complaints about this system.
  5. Azeroth Wars lategame have not remained the same over the past 10 years. Here's a few things that have changed the lategame over the past year: 1. Allying is now restricted. 2. Gold income inflation. 3. Available second chances with large starting armies. 4. More powerful items (and where to find them). 5. Main faction buildings made very durable. 6. Solopaths and leaving ally system. All of this and more have changed lategame over the years. On top of the lategame changing, more players are also still playing when it's lategame. The average playtime in Azeroth Wars have increased dramatically. A game that used to have 6 players leaving in the first 20 minutes are now often seeing 8 players still fighting 45 minutes into the game. Overall, I see increased playtime as a win, it's not an easy thing to accomplish. However, there's multiple things that happens in the lategame that I and others find to be unenjoyable. Now that people are spending more of their playtime in the lategame I think it's good to discuss it. Lategame Concerns The 3rd question in the poll is a collection of matters that I've heard people be unsatisfied with. Here I'll explain those concerns in a little more detail. You can answer multiple times in the 3rd question so you can pick and choose which of the 7 subjects you don't feel happy with currently. 1. TP Scrolls. Lategame can easily become a teleportation game where an attacking player surprises someone by teleporting close or inside their base with a large army. The defender often have too little time to stop the teleport and must instead teleport his whole army nearby to defend. The majority of all lategame attacks are done by building something and teleporting to the building and as a defender it can be very hard to predict and protect yourself against such attacks. A building can be teleported to by many at the same time so in worst case scenario 2 armies teleports in which is almost 200 units max. 2. As game progresses, the physical damage of units increases and so does armor to balance it out. In Azeroth Wars, the magic damage dealt by hero squads increases fast while there's no counter balance to that. There's almost nothing a player can do to protect his regular units from heavy AoE magic damage. As a result, the lategame can often become dominated by hero squads capable of killing hundreds of units very quickly. 3. Every unit costs 1 food and limit is 300 food. In the lategame you often have no more upgrades to research, you've got a lot of gold and a large empire. You only have 1 hero squad. In this situation you often have to train large amounts of units to fight everywhere in your large empire. This is problematic since you can only control 12 units at the same time and the game becomes unstable with thousands of units moving and fighting all at the same time. 4. Gold inflation has been happening for years and have reached high levels. In the lategame, you've researched everything and the only thing to spend gold on is training cheap units. All strong units have a limit on them. Since there's a lot of gold, situations where there's a long spam war between 2 sides are becoming more common. If both sides have over 10k gold, these types of spam wars can last for a very long time with there being a stalemate. 5. To counter surprise aim capitals from sneaky players coming from boats or with a teleport scroll, the armor and health of capitals have been increased to very large levels to give defenders enough time to react. However, some players think the durability might have reached levels that are too high. For factions that don't have good units for destroying buildings, it can take a really long time destroying one main building. 6. Second chances gives players hope. Some that had a bad game can get a fresh start on better terms. For winning players, they can become a problem. A Scourge player that is busy fighting South Alliance to then see Ebon Blade coming from inside his territory. Fel Horde fighting North Alliance to then be surprised by a 100 unit army Illidari in Outland. C'thun surprising Horde players while they're fighting overseas. The result of giving defeated players a second chance is that it makes the game a lot harder for the winning players. It's a natural consequence that have brought some dissatisfaction among players. 7. The new allying system is regulated to ensure that a faction can't ally whoever they want. In general, "solo factions" not allowed to ally anyone. Starting factions not allowed to change allegiance until their ally have left the game. Then there's a few combinations on top of this that are not allowed. This makes the system very confusing for everyone and most people don't know when they can ally somebody else. The restrictions and the confusion combined results in you seeing very few people changing allies in the lategame. There's been several players expressing complaints about this system.
  6. Idea is good, most of it is alright and a natural development of smaller reward ideas accumulating over time. The item Scepter of the Queen should be made into a reward after you've defeated one of the Kalimdor teams. I think it should be put into this list since it kind of already requires you to defeat Horde or Night Elves. This will obviously need a lot of feedback and testing as the completely new stuff looks like dicerolled chaos rather than intelligent design.
  7. This is something that's been discussed a few times in the past, it's something I'm interested in seeing. Right now there's a small playerbase which makes custom maps that requires very many players difficult to fill up in reasonable time. So increasing the number of players required to play any higher then 12 isn't considered. If Warcraft Reforged have stability + large playerbase, then adding another starting faction would be considered. I am personally interested in seeing Troll empire, Fel Horde split up into 2 and tiny starting factions added but I understand stability and keeping it at 12 player is important.
  8. @Lordsebas All recent versions have been very focused on implementing a fleshed out new thing but have often been very empty outside of that. Will there come versions that significantly affects all factions rather than just a few at the time?
  9. I'm not basically saying move all upgrades to the same building. Power Infusion, damage upgrades, armor upgrades, ships upgrades are all closely related. They're in the same category of upgrades. They're improving the gear and weapons your units have. Power infusion is basically spellcasters getting better armor. I don't ever suggest to move all upgrades to the Blacksmith nor have I thought about moving more upgrades to the corner of the map. I believe upgrades that's about giving units new abilities should stay on the relevant building and not at the blacksmith.
  10. Sounds great with a second chance in Northrend. Scourge deserves the looming threat of a new opponent appearing instantly just like everyone else. There's all kinds of second chances to go with there. Ice trolls, Yoggsaron + Forgotten One, Nerubian spiders and the Dragon flights. They're all decent ideas.
  11. I believe that there should be a standardized framework where differences are built within. It provides that consistency that makes it comfortable for players to switch factions and for beginners learning the game. I made a similar thread before just to get some discussion on this and provoke thought. Now I've given it some more thought and I'd like to summarize the suggestions. Symmetric Ideas 1. Move ships & armor upgrades to the Blacksmith/War Mill/Hunter's Hall/Graveyard. 2. Move 'Power Infusion' upgrades to Blacksmith/War Mill/Hunter's Hall/Graveyard. 3. Add a 4th Power Infusion upgrade. 4. All apprentice & master upgrades gives spellcasters grant 5 damage, 100 mana and increased mana regen. Health bonus removed. 5. All towers affected by damage upgrades. Towers unaffected by damage upgrades are currently Arcane Towers, Cannon Towers and Boulder Towers. You can also include Halls of the Dead, Black Citadel and all Ahn'Qiraj buildings here as they're technically towers as well. Assymmetric Ideas Scourge - Death Infusion now grants 2 armor. Scourge doesn't have Power Infusion for their Necromancers & Banshees. - Gets a new upgrade "Blighted Ground" at the Black Citadel. Affects the Halls of the Dead and Black Citadel. Grants a large 1300 AoE regeneration aura to all friendly units. Can be upgraded 3 times. Stacks with Unholy aura. Halls of the Dead gives 4/6/8 hp per second Black Citadel gives 6/8/10 hp per second - Rework Black Citadel 'Raise Dead'. Its currently broken, summoned units instantly dies from the spell. New 'Raise Dead' creates 2 Skeleton Warrior and 2 Skeletal Mage from 1 corpse. 1000 range, 75 manacost. - Halls of the Dead & Black Citadel attacks gets improved by damage upgrades. Legion - Gets a new upgrade "Demonic Construction" at the building 'Legions Armory'. Grants 2.5hp per second, 1 armor and an 800 range enemy negative armor aura by -3 to all Legion buildings. Can be upgraded 3 times giving eventually 7.5 hp per second, 3 armor and -9 armor to all nearby enemy units. Name of aura is "Cursed Ground". - Burning Citadel armor increased from 0 to 5. Dalaran - Arcanist, Pyromancer, Geomancer and Hydromancer gets 2 damage per attack upgrade from the Blacksmith. Dwarves - Tinkers reduced health from 750 to 650, armor from 6 to 2. Is now affected by damage & armor upgrades. Frostwolf, Warsong, True Horde, New Horde - Can now build Boulder Towers. Sentinels - Now have Improved Masonry upgrades (just like humans do). Affects all buildings except Ancient of War. Druids - Nature's Blessing now affects Hunter's Hall, Moonwells, Shipyards and all Night Elf Houses. C'thun - The ability all buildings have that let's them attack now gets improved by damage upgrades. Illidari - Improved Masonry upgrades no also affects all Naga and Draenei buildings as well.
  12. @Lordsebas Something that's been bothering me is when new control points are added and given the exact name of the location instead of the name of a broader region. The Skittering Dark 20g/min (in Silverpine Forest) Sanctuary of Malorne 20g/min (in Mount Hyjal) I think it's better to give them names that apply for a broader region. These specific locations are insignificant in every aspect but geographically accurate to where the control point is placed on the map. Here's what I suggest instead: Idea A) Name zones with compass directions north, west, south, east. So instead of The Skittering Dark it could be named "Northern Silverpine". "Sanctuary of Malorne" be named "Southern Mount Hyjal". I think that if you name something "Northern Silverpine Forest" the other control point doesn't need to be named into "Southern Silverpine Forest". It's fine if continues to be named "Silverpine Forest". Idea B) Go with other suitable names. So with Sanctuary of Malorne it could be renamed to "Mount Hyjal" and the current control point with that name is renamed to "Nordrassil". In Silverpine Forest zone, you rename "The Skittering Dark" to "Silverpine Forest" and the one currently named "Silverpine Forest" is renamed to "Pyrewood Village" because that's the town the control point is placed in.
  13. @Lordsebas In the next version, 2.13 you plan to add N'zoth so we are nearing the end of the roadmap. What's happening next? Got any ideas?
  14. That's really true. Had moments when my army got wiped out and type GG and then there's a streak of small opportunities that slowly gets you back up and fighting again. I've done that myself when I've really believed that all was lost, stick around for a little while in the game and suddenly see something I can do. So, the lesson we can learn is to never fall for when someone calls GG, just keep focusing on the game until they're completely wiped out or when all opponents left.
  15. Thanks for the tip. Played them and took a closer look in singleplayer on the faction. They're only good at defending something with their hero C'thun which is immobile. Ahn'Qiraj is not good at defending anything without their hero squad. C'thun with the whole hero squad + army positioned in a choke point is really strong but if you can't put up strong defenses without your hero squad, then you're not a faction good at defending stuff. Fel Horde, Druids and Dwarves are all able to put up really strong defenses without relying on their hero squads. They're able to go on the offensive while putting up successful defense somewhere else. All their buildings are terrible. Yes, all their buildings are basically towers, but terrible towers. They fire a 50 damage attack every 2 seconds, that's really low DPS and it does not improve with damage upgrades so it becomes irrelevant vs 8/8 teched armies. They don't have any tanky buildings, all of them have like 1k health and 5 armor. Their starting position in SIlithus leaves them without a stable wood supply so you can't focus on building big defenses with lots of buildings as it would just make you quickly run out of wood. Druids, Dwarves, Fel Horde have very large sources of wood to collect from, it's vital that they do for building strong defenses.
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