The Wiki-leaks DNC/Podesta emails you won't hear about from the MSM

Discussion in 'The Thinking Cap' started by ABDeL, Oct 12, 2016.

  1. Csigs

    Csigs

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    So sexually assaulting someone is fine as long as...idk how do you determine is someone a hoe first? And why does that mean that person is no longer entitled to consent?

    I assume you be fine with a homosexual man on the street grabbing your ass as well?
     
  2. SteakOnSpear

    SteakOnSpear ᛊᛏᛖᚨᚲ ᛟᚾ ᛊᛖᚨᚱ Map Maker

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    I never said anything close to this. But this isn't really a thinking cap discussion so let's end it here.
     
  3. Csigs

    Csigs

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    Why isn't it, I'm looking for your definition here, what is Ok, what isn't?
     
  4. SteakOnSpear

    SteakOnSpear ᛊᛏᛖᚨᚲ ᛟᚾ ᛊᛖᚨᚱ Map Maker

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    If is is consensual it is consensual, the reasons behind it doesn't matter is what i'm saying basically.

    The reasons behind consent are irrelevant. Consenting because the person is rich and powerful sounds fine to me.

    Trump never says he would do shit like that on the street with random women. He calls Mexicans rapists and murders, you can't take his generalizations literally.

    Another thing, imo. It just isn't sexual assault grabbing someones pussy. There is a clear double standard with these things. People wouldn't be so upset and call it that, unless they are mental, if a woman said/did the same thing with a guys cock.
     
  5. Csigs

    Csigs

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    Before you said as long as they do not object, that's not the same thing as consent which is why your original statement seemed so wild.

    Grabbing someone by the junk, male or female, by a male or female, without consent is sexual assault. You're right that there's a double standard the response should be to take men more seriously when it happens to them
     
  6. Inferous

    Inferous Favourite Son DiploGuard Administrator

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    Forced or coerced consent is not consent. If someone threatens or intimidates you in order to make you consent then it's not consent.

    There is a double standard but it doesn't make grabbing genitals okay. It is still sexual assault. If someone on the street randomly came up to your mother and forcefully grabbed her crotch while sticking his tongue into her mouth would you laugh it off as locker room behavior? Or would you think "she's a hoe tbh and that's how you treat 'em".

    I also have no doubt that trump has engaged in the behavior he describes, so on top of all his other failings as a human being he's a self-avowed sexual predator as well.
     
  7. Belisarius

    Belisarius

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  8. ABDeL

    ABDeL DiploGuard Our Creator Site Advisor

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    Come on Kyle. The liberal media had no problem with Trump and his borderline rapey antics when he was a democrat. Suddenly they have found their morals and released the tape 11 years later when they had it this whole time. Because he is a viable Republican candidate for the presidency. Suddenly they found their morals when trump isnt making them millions with the apprentice. Give me a break.

    This isn't an issue of whether it should impact Trump or not, but why the media waited so long to release. Surely they are trying to influence the election towards Hillary in Russian interference-level proportions. And thats really why I don't care about the audio too much, not because I have no morals, but because I'm not a Simon says sheep.

    EDIT: Csigs No idea what the unfunny rating is for, wasn't trying to be funny.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
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  9. Inferous

    Inferous Favourite Son DiploGuard Administrator

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    Some people have the strange notion that not only are "the liberal media" and "the democrats" monolithic institutions but that they are combined in some sort of uber-monolith. Why does it make sense for this to be a conspiracy? Of course, the Clinton campaign will release damaging information on Trump in the next few weeks but this is separate from that sort of opposition research because it was an internal tape that was only really discovered for its importance recently. I've also heard some say that this whole thing was a GOP conspiracy as evidenced by how quickly he was denounced by elected Republicans. The idea that "they had it the whole time" seems to suggest Hillary Clinton was personally keeping this on her private server or that Liber L. Media, CEO of ABCNNBC, released the video while tenting his fingers and cackling wildly.

    If being thrust into the public eye doesn't engender high levels of scrutiny then Hillary wouldn't have the approval ratings she has. Once he became a presidential nominee with a chance at becoming president the standard for behavior changes from that assigned to a reality TV personality. This caused people to reassess things he did and said under the previous standard. The things he's said on Stern like how he likes young models or that he goes backstage at pageants aren't illegal they're just gross and in line with his persona. Gloating about the ease with which he is able to commit sexual assault obviously crossed the line for a lot of people, you can't chalk this up to simply media spin.
     
  10. SteakOnSpear

    SteakOnSpear ᛊᛏᛖᚨᚲ ᛟᚾ ᛊᛖᚨᚱ Map Maker

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    Consenting because the person is rich and powerful sounds fine to me.
    I can't be that hard to understand..


    I like how Abdel puts it.
    Both sides are just so unbelievably bad, there is so much hypocrisy, it's only ever bad if it's the other side who does something bad, never your own side.
    When Clinton was in office, the democrats where like oh it's not so bad, what matters is how he runs the country. Now they make it sound like Trump actually has sexually assaulted women, because of a private comment. Talk is now sexual assault apparently.
     
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  11. M3rkabo

    M3rkabo

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    I don't think Trump is as bad as many have made him out to be. No one hated the guy until he ran for office.
     
  12. ABDeL

    ABDeL DiploGuard Our Creator Site Advisor

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    Reports say they were going to edit out billy bush's laughter to save him but someone leaked it before they could. That fact takes down your whole argument like a house of cards. The devil takes care of his own.
     
  13. Inferous

    Inferous Favourite Son DiploGuard Administrator

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    No, it really doesn't. NBC had recently found the tape and were preparing a story on it, but the raw footage was leaked to the WaPo. Are you surprised that NBC wanted to protect one of their employees and on-screen personalities? That has nothing to do with a democrats-media spanning conspiracy and everything to do with public relations.
     
  14. ABDeL

    ABDeL DiploGuard Our Creator Site Advisor

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    Yes it does have everything to do with the liberal media. Trump worked for NBC for years and they knew about him being disgusting, they knew that he spoke inappropriately about women and they still kept them on because they work he was making the millions and he had the right opinions. Are you telling me they didn't know that he walked in on teenagers changing for their pageant shows? The Best Is Yet To Come my friend, this is just the beginning, but I'm arguing is that it's also an indictment of NBC that they did work with Trump for decades because he was making them millions and that his disgusting behavior didn't phase them at the time.
     
  15. Csigs

    Csigs

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    If the tape revealed information showing direct criminal behavior, ie an on tape confession of specific sexual or something, then there would certainly be a conversation to be had about the morals of holding on to that information especially if it was not in conjuction with the wishes of whomever the victim was. Now, even then that conversation is 100% separate from the conversation of the content of the tapes.

    That is not the case though, they just make him out to have a disgusting personality which frankly shouldn't be new information to anyone (this is the same guy who clearly lusts after his daughter). There is no discussion to be had about when they chose to release the tapes. If they want to release it when they think it will do the most damage, that's their prerogative as a private news organization. If they want to release it when it will get the most attention (in the midst of the debates and right before the election) that's also their prerogative.

    Much like it was the prerogative of Wikileaks to sit on the Clinton Campaign emails until they thought they would deliver the most effective damage, spending months teasing how they had an October surprise that was going to ruin Clinton. But your right-wing version of tumblr is so balls deep in you at this point you do everything you can to try and make a story out of that and dismiss this as a media conspiracy to make Trump look bad. The hypocrisy of doing so in the very thread you made to try and cook the nothing burger that was these leaks is incredible.

    Has the media been way to easy on Trump for decades because he was profitable to them? Of course! There is a huge problem in society with athletes, celebrities, and the rich/powerful writ large being held to an entirely different standard than the everyman. NBC is slimy for not holding Trump to a standard while he was making them money. But that's a side effect of profit driven media, if your income is based around personalities than as an institution you need to protect those personalities. I'm not saying we need to get rid of private media but that it is anot impact we have to take into consideration and find a way to circumvent. I don't know what the answer is. But systemic problems within the media and society do not excuse the individual behavior and actions of Trump.

    I cannot believe that the "Herr derr both sides" argument is trying to be used to excuse or defend Trump here. Both sides do it does not mean both sides should get away with it! It means we should take women seriously when they say Bill Clinton raped them! It means we should take the women who came forward yesterday seriously in their allegations against Trump! Both sides do it means -way too many people are fucking doing it-

    M3rkabo Espn's 30for30 on the USFL is a great watch if you think everyone liked Trump before this election. Was filmed in 2008.
     
  16. M3rkabo

    M3rkabo

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    I'll queue that up. Yeah this election is total madness. A battle between two corrupt ego maniacs. Though I do think one is worse than the other, It really can't be denied that there are immense fallacies on both sides.
     
  17. ABDeL

    ABDeL DiploGuard Our Creator Site Advisor

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    I agree that NBC would be legally liable to turn over the tapes if there was any criminal behavior.

    There should be a discussion to be had about when they chose to release the tapes. Are they releasing because they truly find these statements to be abhorrent? If so, why did they do business with him for over a decade? Why were they planning on editting the video to save Bush's reputation and only harm Trump's?

    Its simple, because they wanted to influence public opinion against Trump, not because they find his comments repulsive. Intent makes all the difference in the world and giving them a pass in this regard makes you an irresponsible media consumer. We should all hold our media to higher standards; this was the whole issue with gamergate. Only 6% of Americans trust the MSM and its games like these that reflect that number. For context, the media has a lower approval rating than congress.

    That being said, it is their prerogative as a private news organization, but this doesn't mean we should let them take us for a ride. We should speak out and let it be known that we're not going to be shepherded around like sheep, that we are aware of the media bias and we will vote with our dollars and our feet to strengthen the burgeoning alternative media that has done a much better job this election cycle than the Cable News Clinton propagandists.

    1. Donna Brazile told the Clinton campaign that she had some townhall questions from CNN’s upcoming event. According to you, Nothingburger.
    2. Hillary will expand the war in Syria with no-Fly zones and increased arming of the FSA. Nothingburger.
    3. Emails that indicated that FBI and DOJ employees were devastated that they failed to prosecute Hillary Clinton for obvious lawbreaking. Nothingburger.
    4. Leaks that Obama used a pseudonym to hide his association with Hillary's server, when he stated he wasn't aware of her server activities, which makes him an accessory to mishandling of classfied material. Nothingburger.
    5. Leaks that Democrats created fake Catholic organizations to create a “Catholic spring” and create a Christian crisis in the country. Nothingburger.
    6. Leaks that Hillary's State Dept fast-tracked USAID Haiti relief funds to "Friends of Bill" and side-tracked other organizations. Nothingburger.
    I never said there is a media conspiracy to make Trump look bad. There is definitely a media conspiracy to get Hillary elected, and the bias is undeniable. When it comes to Wikileaks October surprise comparison to NBC's leaked video, the difference is that Wikileaks announced in August that they would be dropping these leaks in October. 2 months vs 11 years? Is this your argument? After Bernie was cheated out of a fair shake, is this the defeatism that you've stooped to?

    I'm honestly offended by your comments that characterize me as right-wing tumblr. Both of these candidates are deeply flawed and I have stated that I'm voting for neither of them. Two things can be true at the same time; Trump can be a sick human being and Hillary can be a deeply corrupt individual. Assange has additionally said that the leaks will include material which he thinks should get Hillary indicted on some charge. To call these leaks nothingburgers is a display of cognitive dissonance and an admission on your part that you are simply OK with the way things are.

    Where's the Never Hillary movement thats remotely as strong as the NeverTrump movement? Have Democrats distanced themselves from Hillary given what she and her husband have been accused of? How dare you call me right-wing Tumblr when so many of your fellow liberals are towing the party line like sheep when the evidence stacked against Hillary doesn't come close to how bad Trump is.

    The media has been way easy to Trump as late as the primary election cycle for the very reason that he boosted ratings.

    We've had a profit driven media for generations and its only been this biased in the past 15 years, and blatantly, unabashedly and unapologetically biased in the past year. When it comes to profit-driven organizations and companies, they are free to spread their info the way they please, but it is our job as consumers to hold their feet to the fire. For example, there is a reason why when you go the grocery store things are labeled with "Non-GMO project" labels, because there are organizations that we trust that perform the vetting for us.

    Like I said earlier, two things can be true at the same time and I agree. Please don't think that me blasting the media's bias is me being pro-Trump. There is a serious problem with our media and it doesn't take a partisan to see it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  18. M3rkabo

    M3rkabo

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    ABDeL I took you for a democrat and while I disagree with you on a few things, Micheal Savage being one, I really respect that you look at things openly and with a bi partisan and objective perspective. Personally, I don't think Trump's past infidelities and indiscretions hold a candle to the pure, blatant corruption we're seeing in Washington right now. All of these allegations against Trump being reported are hypocritical when one considers the massive wikileaks dumps and the insincerity they illustrate. And considering that these liberal news organizations in the form of Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post, spend twice or in many cases three or four times the coverage on vulgar language he used 11 years ago but don't address the fact that Bill Clinton and the Clinton foundation in general recieved money on several different occasions from the Saudi government, where it's legal to rape and beat woman and cut off their genitals is pure asinine. It's also pretty damn convenient that this stuff comes up now, only four weeks from the election.
     
  19. Csigs

    Csigs

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    ABDeL is probably as far from being a Democrat as one gets. I'm not with the party either but probably vote D more often thanot him.

    I wouldn't say media bias has been limited to the past 15 years, humans inherently bring their biases into their work and I think the best thing the media can do is be transparent about it.

    It's not a nothingburger in that it's not filled with many bad things but it's a nothingburger in that it's not anything we didn't already know. If someone wants to defend the morality of the HRC campaign's actions as Steak has with Trump I'll jump on them just as hard. But no one is doing that
     
  20. Ser_Fergus

    Ser_Fergus Professional Shark Hater DiploGuard

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    He was no longer a democrat and an active threat to the democrats by 2008. They also didn't realistically think he was going to run for president. It would have come out during birtherism.

    Yeah this is. This sort of thing happens at every level of election. Hell trump was under fire for something similar recently during an interview. I think we had a similar article about clinton v obama.

    Already knew she was a warhawk.

    This is a big deal, although because of reasonable doubt Obama could never be made an accessory. Why he went along with it is a bigger question.

    Just another bump in the mass gerrymandering road that partisan politics has created.

    Now this is the really big deal. If accusations of pay-to-play beforehand had been little more than rumours, this is actual tangible evidence of corruption.

    Fucking GMO paranoia. Anyway, it's always been this biased, just usually not so heavily on one candidate. Obama's 2008 campaign was more or less media sites entrenching in a camp. But back then, both candidates were politicians. FAR has only started really in the second half of the twentieth century. As for the friends of hillary and whatnot, in 2008 camp hillary was up in arms because of how biased things had been in favour of Obama.

    EDIT: Just reread my own post. In my defense, I'm running on shite for sleep right now.
     
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