Discussion in 'The Thinking Cap' started by Spankfurt, Aug 14, 2013.
Surprised it took this long for David Icke's moon tirade to be posted
I mostly liked the last part especially about the high content of titanium and the ideal design/appearance of the moon, but yeah the part about the quotes and such is obviously reminiscent of the OP.
To expand on this post, I just read through these links and they're quite good, despite a few grammatical errors. Seems to check out, and hints at the incredible.
Hk that second video you posted is just really sensationalized and overly hyped. It has grown exceptionally annoying by being drudged up by people who haven't looked at where or what he's getting his "Intel" from, or what convinced him in the first place.
During his time as defense minister, he had nothing to do with anything or anyone relevant or pertinent to the UFO phenomenon.
Everything he believes he formulated after leaving office. He read Corso's book and saw Peter Jennings' tv UFO special, heard a few anecdotes and boom he was convinced. That's it.
He saw no secret documents and was privy to no secret UFO dealings while in office. He has no supporting evidence at all.
While I appreciate the gravitas his public statements bring to the subject, the fact that he is making such extraordinary claims with no evidence to back it up just makes it easier for debunkers to trash him and the subject. He's actually not really helping at all.
There are many people on this here forum who know more about the UFO phenomenon than Paul Hellyer.
Nobody needs you to point out the obvious, Spankfurt. He is what he is, what he says is what he says; he is "the first person of cabinet rank to unequivocally state that UFOs are as real as the airplanes above us."
That is, everything except for your little logical flaw "boom he was convinced" is evidently obvious and in no need for reiteration. Is Paul Hellyer suddenly stupider than you because he was too busy formulating the Canadian military to pay attention to UFOs?
As for Gary McKinnon, it matters less the specifications of what he says he saw than the fact that he says he saw many more people doing what he was doing.
I directed you back to this thread on the note that all prestigious astronaut-scientists with balls to do it claim the same thing; what one of them says is worth what a billion idiot-fags on Reddit say. Severely disappointing, but at least you did not bother to attack the pyramids which are even more ambiguous and absurd.
There are absolutely no people on this forum who know more than Paul Hellyer.
There are absolutely people on this forum who think they know more about the UFO phenomenon than Paul Hellyer. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.
Aah, claiming to know far more than any of us with vague, wise-sounding statements. Classic.
Anywho, honestly, I would not be surprised if there were some sort of ETs or some such, but I wouldn't trust intellihub to find out I dropped a stick of butter, let alone evidence of aliens.
Because to quote the comments; "Álvaro Colom Caballeros is the president of guatemala"
Have a look:
Very rarely does this kinda thing get proven on the guardian film section.
Yeah I only watched about 2 minutes of the Youtube video at the bottom of that before posting it. Something as archaeologically explicit as that is either true and groundbreaking, or an absolute hoax, regardless of source.
The point of said statement is not that any individual - in the case of your claim, me - is greater, but rather that people in general are lesser than they realize, of course linked to being ruled by emotion.
Quite simply, the moon is not some artificially constructed structure built by aliens used to surveil us. Its widely acknowledged that the moon was a result of an object impacting the Earth. This also helps to account for the irregularities. I also don't know what to tell people that believe there is an alien race monitoring us - it is ludicrous and demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of space. Surely extraterrestrials exist given the size of the universe - but it is for this same reason that there is absolutely no reason to believe they are in any way in contact with us. Though I suppose it is only natural to allow our imagination and need for escape from our mundane lives that drives us to concoct such "theories".
Is that so?
The Sun and Earth are approximately 4.57 and 4.54 billion years old respectively. Approximately 3.6 billion years ago, or about a billion years after our solar system formed, prokaryotic life developed on Earth.
Our Sun is a 'B-V colour' star, which accounts for approximately 10% of the 300 billion stars in the Milky Way, or 30 billion. We're a rather average sized galaxy, and of our ~300 billion stars, approximately 22% - 6.6 billion - have been found to have Earth-like planets orbiting in their habitable zones.
Astronomers estimate there to be about 170 billion galaxies in the universe. Do I need to do the math?
Water, despite being such a useful chemical, is actually rather common and easy to produce throughout the cosmos. The universe is estimated to be about 13.7 billion years old, and the oldest (super-massive) water blob we've already observed has been 12 billion years old.
All you need for life to develop is a habitable planet with water. The universe has had at least 12 billion years and well over 999 quadrillion habitable planets for water to find and make life upon. You recognize the illogicality of believing we're the only planet with life presently, yet refuse to recognize the fact that life could have just as easily developed elsewhere in the universe in the billions of years before Earth or life on Earth even existed?
Because of the fact that we presently believe there is no way to travel beyond the speed of light, and have absolutely no current method of even coming close to it? Weak.
Consider the possibility that FTL travel is scientifically possible - we just don't realize it yet. What then?
Who's "them?" The earliest possible intelligent and sentient species?
Earth took only a billion years to develop life after our solar system formed about 4.6 billion years ago. The universe had existed for about 9 billion years before the Sun formed, and most of its expansion was done in the first few moments. I don't imagine it would've taken billions and billions of years for the first habitable planets to appear in the cosmos, but even if it did, that still leaves billions of years for the first habitable planets to develop intelligent, advanced cultures before Earth, and life and subsequent intelligent life on Earth, appear at all.
There is plenty of evidence scattered across the skies indicative of alien intelligence.
This, despite the relative invisibility of the modern night sky, and the fact that advanced extraterrestrials would obviously have technology able to make themselves and logically their craft invisible from all forms of detection we might have - these facts which, in addition to suppression of intelligence by governments, have contributed to UFOs becoming taboo.
Both those assumptions - that life, especially intelligent life, is rare, and that FTL spaceflight may be impossible - are completely logical, obviously, and may be true just as we as a species presently suspect.
How does this contradict the first option in any way?
Western militaries already have expansive stealth technologies that the public is aware of. The stealth bomber is incredible. Stealth technologies have been one of the fastest growing military industries. More importantly, in the past decade, Canada developed literal invisibility cloak technology, which they've sold to the U.S. military; I ask you, if we have this technology, why would advanced extraterrestrials not?
In addition, given all the evidence of UFOs, think about how they would actually appear in the skies, especially since they've been sighted so often in the past 70 years or so. Would they fly around, clearly visible, like airplanes? Or would they travel in stealth? And would they be restricted to the air, given their method of flight? Or would they also be able to travel through, say, oceans, rivers, even volcanoes, etc.?
First, about 3,000 years ago was the time of the Bronze Age Collapse. First contact was very definitely long before that if it ever happened.
That is completely assuming they are limited to travel speeds below light speed, though. The question of FTL travel tech also has no bearing on the accuracy of the ancient astronauts theory because a constant physical connection to the extraterrestrial's planet would not be necessary at all for the theory to ring true.
That's also assuming "they send out a drone." What if that drone is the first, and sustained contact squad? What if instead of a mere drone they send out some sort of galactic space ship, housing an entire commune of people and scientists (thus being hollow, as our moon likely is, since it rings like a gong) with the specific purpose of finding and doing, well, whatever their intent is, with life on other planets? Of course in order to travel close to light speed or beyond, the engine of said alien craft would not appear at all like our modern engines - that is, with a distinct back end, shooting out exhaust fumes. The craft would also need to be able to absorb cosmic impacts of all sorts.
There would be no need for aliens to send a message back home saying "hey, we found intelligent life, send scientists!" if the scientists were the ones finding the life. Rather, they'd say something like "hey, we found intelligent life, proceeding with operations!"
Either way, messaging is of course a completely different concept from travel, which just adds another level of speculation to it. Maybe, only their drones would be capable of going FTL because the conversion to and from energy destroys an organism's composition; so messages can be sent FTL, but the aliens cannot travel FTL themselves. It's pointless regardless as it's beyond our science; what is true is simply that either FTL travel is possible or it's not.
Maybe there's an (relatively) instant teleportation pad inside of the moon. zomg.
Hence why they would not just "kill us all" just because they can, like some idiots tend to think.
Our scientists don't intervene when observing nature taking its course. Why would their's?
You're assuming they didn't intervene in the Cold War. Of course the implication is that the aliens are and have been present; they've been actively sighted highly regularly every year for decades, after all. However, only since the end of WW2 has this been the case. Shit, you don't know what happened in the Cold War. You're also assuming they consider us intelligent and rare; though I'm sure we are - and thus they do consider us so - relative to most life-bearing planets.
Perhaps homo sapiens were not exceptionally intelligent before they found us. Or perhaps we were. Who knows?
Most people view creationism vs. evolution as black&white based on the [limited] evidence we've accumulated since the latter was incepted. As you know, in truth we currently have absolutely no idea beyond basic theories (such as the aquatic ape hypothesis which you brought up in a conversation years ago) of how we developed our intelligence, among other traits.
Once again, completely logical, and thus, probably true. Most aliens, if the evidence rings true, are here to help us develop as a species. If you give a Congo bushman advanced technology like a hunting rifle or an iPod it does him no good if he can't create bullets or recharge the battery. They are here first and foremost to help us evolve emotionally and spiritually as a species.
So it would seem. Generally the only hostile alien species we humans imagine is one of a locust-like philosophy, mindlessly harvesting planets to oblivion then abandoning them, perhaps infiltrating our politicians and/or military a bit before a full-scale invasion. In the areas of the Middle East where oil is heavily extracted, I doubt the native citizens use the oil much. I doubt the rubber-making natives of the Belgian Congo understood the usage and reasoning for making and exporting it, and getting their hands cut off for it.
Among whom? And acknowledged as what?
Among scientists and acknowledged as fact? Or among laymen and acknowledged as theory?
Yes, that was brought up already. The point of this thread encompasses essentially everything except that, seeing as that is the commonly held belief.
Erm, how so?
You are the only one imagining things here, such as: 1. the impossibility of the moon being anything except for (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis); 2. believing a theory being widely accepted gives it scientific value; 3. believing the impact hypothesis somehow explains the moon's aforementioned irregularities; and 4. that aliens can and no doubt exist, but that there's no way in hell they're in present contact with us
Obviously you're not imagining the sound reasoning of the Giant impact hypothesis, though. I don't precisely doubt it whatsoever. It is widely accepted because it is sound; if the moon is indeed a natural phenomenon, that is probably the case for it.
Or perhaps this "mundane life" you speak of is forced upon you to keep you in blissful ignorance, and any who step beyond it are marginalized as dissidents.
Bring back Hksaru
Doesn't seem so incredibly amazing to me that Earth has a Moon.
The Nazi's are on the moon, go play Alt Future
Separate names with a comma.