Europe NL Election thread - Diplo Poll

Discussion in 'The News Stand' started by Thurr, Feb 11, 2017.

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Which Dutch party would you support?

  1. PVV (Party for Freedom)

    16.7%
  2. VVD (People's party for Freedom and Democracy)

    16.7%
  3. D66 (Democrats '66)

    11.1%
  4. CDA (Christian Democratic Appeal)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. GroenLinks (The Greens)

    5.6%
  6. SP (Socialist Party)

    22.2%
  7. PvdA (Labour Party)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 50PLUS (50+)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. ChristenUnie (Christian Union)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. SGP (Reformed Political Party)

    5.6%
  11. Partij voor de Dieren (Party for the Animals)

    5.6%
  12. Politieke beweging DENK (THINK)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. VoorNederland (For the Netherlands)

    11.1%
  14. Forum voor Democratie (Forum for Democracy)

    5.6%
  1. Thurr

    Thurr DiploMVP

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    Hey there everyone,

    On the fifteenth we have our general elections here in the Netherlands. Normally the international news coverage is equal to that of Denmark's reason of being i.e. non-existent. Yet this year we are all the rage having our own 'far right eurospectic anti-Islam whateverever party', apparently that makes our tiny nation news worthy, naturally it follows that we have a poll on Diplo.

    Firstly here's the list of 28 parties we can vote on (I've taken the liberty to translate the names wherever possible):

    1 VVD Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie (People's party for Freedom and Democracy)
    2 P.v.d.A. Partij van de Arbeid (Labour Party)
    3 PVV Partij voor de Vrijheid (Party for Freedom)
    4 SP Socialistische Partij (Socialist Party)
    5 CDA Christen Democratisch Appèl (Christian Democratic Appeal)
    6 D66 POLITIEKE PARTIJ DEMOCRATEN 66 (Democrats '66)
    7 ChristenUnie (Christian Union)
    8 GROENLINKS GroenLinks (The Greens)
    9 SGP Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij (Reformed Political Party)
    10 Partij voor de Dieren (Party for Animals)
    11 50PLUS (50+)
    12 OndernemersPartij (Entrepeneurs Party)
    13 VNL VoorNederland (For the Netherlands)
    14 DENK Politieke beweging DENK (THINK)
    15 NIEUWE WEGEN (New roads)
    16 Forum voor Democratie (Forum for Democracy)
    17 De Burger Beweging (The Civilian Movement)
    18 Vrijzinnige Partij (Freethinking Party)
    19 GeenPeil ( ... GeenPeil)
    20 Piratenpartij (Piraty Party)
    21 Artikel 1 (Article 1)
    22 Niet Stemmers Vereniging voor Niet-Stemmers (Non-voters Party)
    23 LP Libertarische partij voor persoonlijke vrijheid en verantwoordelijkheid (Libertarian party for Personal Freedom and Responsibility)
    24 Lokaal in de Kamer (Locals in the Parliament)
    25 JEZUS LEEFT (JESUS LIVES)
    26 StemNL (Vote NL)
    27 MenS en Spirit / Basisinkomen Partij / V-R Partij voor Mens en Spirit Samenwerkende 'Parasol Partijen' (Party for Humanity and Spirit / Basic Income Party)
    28 VDP Vrije Democratische Partij (VDP) (Free Democratic Party)

    Well, that's quite a list. Luckily there's only a bunch of parties that have a chance to get into the parliament. Most parties are ignored by the media and have no chance to participate in any of the debates.
    Before we move on, first a list of the parties that are currently in the parliament:

    VVD Mark Rutte 40
    PvdA Lodewijk Asscher 35
    SP Emile Roemer 15
    CDA Sybrand van Haersma Buma 13
    PVV Geert Wilders 12
    D66 Alexander Pechtold 12
    CU Gert-Jan Segers 5
    GL Jesse Klaver 4
    SGP Kees van der Staaij 3
    PvdD Marianne Thieme 2
    50PLUS Henk Krol 1
    Independent n/a 8

    According to the polls we will get some new parties in the parliament. Here's two links that show the most recent polls:
    http://frontbencher.nl/peilingen/
    http://peilingwijzer.tomlouwerse.nl/
    [​IMG]

    The poll will only include these parties because who cares about being inclusive.
    Here's a look at the left-right / progressive-conservative spectrum.

    Capture.PNG

    Since most of you won't know any of these parties I'll try to give a short description of them.
    Here's me trying not to be biased. Listed from biggest to smallest party according to the polls.

    PVV (Party for Freedom):
    The party of Geert Wilders. Mostly known due to its anti-Europe and anti-Islam stances. Arguably left-winged on economic issues and right-winged on social issues.

    VVD (People's party for Freedom and Democracy):
    The VVD is currently the biggest party in the parliament. Mark Rutte, the party leader, has been our prime minister since 2010. The VVD currently forms our government together with the Labour Party. The party can be described as conservative-liberal and has traditionally been our biggest right wing party.

    D66 (Decomcrats '66):
    Social liberal and progressive party, lead by Alexander Pechtold who has managed to push the parties popularity massively since he became its leader in 2006. The party is mostly known for supporting students, being pro-European and pro-republic. D66 lend a lot of support to the government in the past couple of years.

    CDA (Christen Democratisch Appèl):
    CDA used to be one of the biggest parties in the country, but lost a lot of its seats and influence. It is still the biggest christian party and is generally a moderate or centrist party. Currently led by Sybrand van Haersma Buma.

    GroenLinks (The Greens):
    Green, social and tolerant. One of the most left winged and progressive parties in the Netherlands. Currently lead by Justin Trude- I mean Jesse Klaver. GroenLinks gained a lot of popularity due to the Labour Party losing a lot of voters.

    SP (Socialist Party):
    Its core issues are employment, social welfare and investing in public education, public safety and health care. The party opposes privatisation of public services and is critical of globalization. - From Wikipedia.
    SP is really straightforward in its socialist policies. Usually gains quite some traction in the polls, but under performs in the actual election.

    PVDA (Labour Party):
    Currently in the government with the VVD, which they are heavily criticized for and made them lose a lot of popularity. They've recently changed leadership to Lodewijk Asscher in the hope to regain some of their former voters.

    50+:
    A relatively new party, which has currently 1 seat in parliament. The party solely focuses on one demographic, yet manages to gain a lot of support. Is often criticized for having the same populist tendencies as the PVV and the SP.

    CU (Christian Democrats):
    The CU holds socially conservative positions on issues such as same-sex marriage, abortion and euthanasia, is Eurosceptic, while maintaining progressive stances on economic, immigration and environmental issues. The party self-describes itself as "social Christian". - From Wiki.
    Has a very loyal voter base which gives them a permanent presence in the parliament. More progressive than the CDA.

    SGP (Reformed Political Party):
    The Reformed Political Party is an orthodox Protestant Calvinist political party in the Netherlands. The term Reformed is not a reference to political reform, but is a synonym for Calvinism. The SGP is the oldest political party in the Netherlands in its current form, and has for its entire existence been in opposition. The party has, owing to its orthodox political ideals and its refusal to cooperate in any cabinet, been called a testimonial party. - From Wiki, I am getting really lazy.
    The most conservative Christian party in the parliament. Gained a bit more popularity under the leadership of Kees van der Staaij.

    Partij voor de Dieren (Party for the Animals):
    The Party for the Animals is a political party in the Netherlands. Among its main goals are animal rights and animal welfare, though it claims not to be a single-issue party. The party does consider itself to be a testimonial party, which does not seek to gain political power, but only to testify to its beliefs and thereby influence other parties. - Love, Wiki
    Wikipedia is quite right on it not being a single-issue party, lately its become very progressive in its views and Marianne Thieme is a first class raging feminist.

    Denk (Think):
    Denk was formed by Tunahan Kuzu & Selcuk Ozturk who used to be members and parliamentarians of the Labour Party. They left the PVDA and became independent parliamentarians. This is the first election in which they participate as an actual party.
    Denk is left-winged progressive and relies heavily on the vote of Moroccan, Turkish, etc. migrants.

    VNL (For the Netherlands):
    VNL calls itself a Classical Liberal party. VNL is a proponent of small government and supports the introduction of a low flat tax rate. Furthermore, it supports investment in the police and defence, seeks to limit the powers of the European Union to a free trade area, and wants a stricter immigration policy.
    VNL supports a Nexit referendum and is very skeptical of the European Union.

    Forum voor Democratie (Forum for Democracy):
    FvD wants to change the democracy by 'overthrowing' the current political elite. It is a big proponent of referendums, is EU skeptical, wants a stronger stance on immigration, and wants to tackle Dutch public broadcasting system.

    ----
    Going to leave it here for now.
    Clearly this is hardly enough information to make an informed vote, so do ask me any questions if you are interested. Perhaps some of the other Dutch Diplo citizens can chip in as well.

    I'll post some of the voting issues tomorrow.
     
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  2. nodle

    nodle Budtender

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    Netherlands so pro Eu that it doesn't even matter.
     
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  3. Lord Massington

    Lord Massington The spirit of GOTE

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    I do consider myself a party animal
     
  4. Bild

    Bild

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    So they're more of a left-wing populist party than actual socialists?...

    Until now I never noticed that you freely mix American and British spelling.
     
  5. Thurr

    Thurr DiploMVP

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    In 2005 we voted against the European constitution and in 2016 we voted against the Ukraine union association agreement.

    The big well-established parties are pro-European, that is correct, yet referendums show that the people have quite a different opinion on the EU. Parties are starting to reflect this with the PVV, SP, and 50+, being bigger parties, openly being anti-EU.

    This election also brings three parties that got popularity by organizing the Ukraine referendum, this being VNL, GeenPeil, and Forum voor Democratie. These parties all argue for the implementation of binding referendums.

    Then there's the nuance between all the other parties. Some are very pro-EU (D66) and others would prefer the EU to stay an economic block (VVD) and a whole variety of other stances in between.

    In any case, the PVV wants a Nexit, so if they gain enough power this election then there's definitely a possibility that such a thing might happen.
    Globalization is not their main shtick, they get a lot of critique from other parties for having some conveniently populist stances. Their main deal is really health care, social welfare and taxing the rich.

    The party itself has become a whole lot more moderate in their views over the years. The party was based on Maoism and was called the Communist Party of the Netherlands/Marxist–Leninist for quite a while before it took their current name. In their early years they were very active with organizing strikes and the party cherishes activism. Does it make them 'actual socialists'? Well, they are the most far left leaning party in the parliament.
    I try to stick to British spelling, but after spellchecks, auto-correct and general laziness it does tend to become rather muddled together. Then again, "sry f4r bad english not my ma1n languaguege". ; )
     
  6. Complexity.

    Complexity.

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    Dutch citizens are not by definition pro Eu. If there would be a referendum like there was in the UK the outcome would probably be a close call. As Thurr said the Dutch people voted against 2 European laws and both were implemented anyway. Most recently the Ukraine referendum. 2 Million people voted against and what does Mark Rutte do with that result? Nothing at all. Better yet, he added a couple of things and turned it into a "yes" anyway. As if the people who voted against the referendum would change their mind now that he added notes stating that the Netherlands wouldn't provide military support and so on.

    Most Dutch citizens are not pleased with the current government and the politics overall. Every 4 years it's the same old same old. The British call it a "hang-parlement" where no party has the majority. Thus our parties have to make coalitions which is good for democracy, but not for the country because it takes too long before decisions are made. The current government isn't loved by most of the Dutch. The promises they made in the elections of 2012 haven't been executed. One of the reasons why the labor party dropped faster than the British pound in the poll ratings.

    Furthermore the government keeps making promises about fixing issues, but they barely succeed in doing it. First example that comes to mind is the province of Groningen. People over there are "terrorized" by earth quakes caused by the N.A.M (Dutch Oil Company). The company owned by Shell refuses to give people the right amount of money to make up for the damages to peoples houses. As a result most people in the north of the Netherlands feel abandoned by their government. That's one of the reasons why more people are voting on the populist party PVV of Geert Wilders.

    It will be save to say that VVD and PVV will have the majority in the parliament and Nexit could very much be a reality if PVV was to be put in charge. As for myself I still have to read through the plans of each party and make up my mind on whom I'm going to vote. But it will be interesting to see if PVV is able to have the majority, because in that case a Nexit is around the corner.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  7. SteakOnSpear

    SteakOnSpear ᛊᛏᛖᚨᚲ ᛟᚾ ᛊᛖᚨᚱ Map Maker

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    Don't we all
     
  8. Baledwyr

    Baledwyr Non-Executive Chairman Site Advisor

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    Whose the Monarchist party?
     
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  9. AxelTheGreatest

    AxelTheGreatest Heda

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    I'd vote for VNL, they are clearly the best party for right-wingers who have lost faith in the VVD.

    By the way, you forgot to mention that DENK denies the Armenian Genocide and refuses to condemn Erdogan's dictatorship.
     
  10. SteakOnSpear

    SteakOnSpear ᛊᛏᛖᚨᚲ ᛟᚾ ᛊᛖᚨᚱ Map Maker

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    Let's not dwell on the past
     
  11. AxelTheGreatest

    AxelTheGreatest Heda

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    Yeah, and there have been casualties on both sides.
     
  12. Complexity.

    Complexity.

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    Why would u vote VNL instead of PVV? Most right-wingers who have lost faith in VVD are turning to the PVV if I'm not mistaken.
     
  13. AxelTheGreatest

    AxelTheGreatest Heda

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    Well first of all, I'm under the age of 18, so I can't even cast my vote ^^
    But I'll explain why I (would) support VNL: first of all I simply dislike the PVV, especially Greet, and the way they act in politics. Secondly, I'm right-winged on both social and economical issues. I'll give you some clashes between the PVV and VNL:

    • The PVV wants the age for the state-regulated pensions, the AOW, on 65, VNL wants to raise it to 67
    • The PVV wants to ban Islam from the Netherlands all together, VNL wants to stop asylum seekers and invest 200 million each year in regional refugee camps, while allowing (temporary) legal migration, for example when there is demand for certain labor in our country.
    • VNL wants to invest more than twice as much on security.
    • VNL wants a flat tax, while the PVV wants to keep our current progressive tax.
    • VNL has a well-made election program, the PVV has 1 lonely sheet in which they say the want to save 7 billion euro's by 'de-islamizing the Netherlands'. GG to that
     
  14. ponasozis

    ponasozis SOVIET HATE MARINE

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    its funny how pretty much every average guy living in EU is against EU
    and thats mostly because of the way politicians act and how undemocratic the whole EU is
     
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  15. Ordo

    Ordo Lore Judge

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    Its pretty democratic. Its the decisions, people in charge and the structure that make it awful.
     
  16. Potatoe_Head

    Potatoe_Head Diplomunion.com CEO

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    Then you have missed the Schulz-Train or don't live in Germany. Jk. There are lots of people I think who are in favour of the EU but have their personal dislikes. Whatever that may be, all in all we do benefit. Anschluss.
     
  17. Potatoe_Head

    Potatoe_Head Diplomunion.com CEO

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    Decisions are subjective matter or are what are you refering to? And I agree, the structure makes it awful. The EU would lack the democratic structure to qualify to join the EU.
     
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  18. Complexity.

    Complexity.

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    How can you support this Axel... Before we realize what's happening it's raised it to 70 kek.
     
  19. Thurr

    Thurr DiploMVP

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    Denk triggers me immensely so I try to spend as little time as possible discussing it.

    Im seriously considering voting for VNL: their party programme is a dream. There's only a few points that I disagree with. I have to consider the strategic vote for the VVD though.

    It should have been raised ages ago.
    Look at the bad state of the pension funds these days, if you keep it at 65 that will get even worse.
     
  20. AxelTheGreatest

    AxelTheGreatest Heda

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    Yes. So?

    When it was introduced in around 1960 or so, there were 7 working people (actives) for each inactive (those recieving aow). Right now, its around 4 actives for each inactive. It will be 2 inactives for each active in 2040.

    It simply has to change. We can't handle a changing I/A ratio this bad. People live longer and can thus work longer. Easy.
     
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