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Baledwyr

Ongoing Saga: China-Hong Kong strife.

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Personal Comment:

 

The Hong Kong people deserve our attention at whats happening to them. We never did anything for the Uighurs or the Tibetans but we can make up for it by saying no to China over the Cantonese of Hong Kong 

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I'm not sure the Tibetans and Uighurs will see this as "making it up" for them. On the flip side, pre-China Tibet wasn't exactly a great place either so...

 

Anyways, I'm not sure who "we" is within the context of your statement. New Zealand? The British Empire? Diplomunion?

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You know, one would expect the chinese to play it slowly with the whole  reunification thing, but i guess no one is interested in enforcing the deal made with China anyway so they can do what they want.  

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We have a mounting problem on the campus now, the Hong Kong protest wall has been attacked and torn down three times now by Pro-Beijing Mainlanders....I am not looking forward to having to get in between Pro-Beijing/Hong Kongers 😕

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5 hours ago, Baledwyr said:

We have a mounting problem on the campus now, the Hong Kong protest wall has been attacked and torn down three times now by Pro-Beijing Mainlanders....I am not looking forward to having to get in between Pro-Beijing/Hong Kongers 😕

 

This sounds like fun. Get a cattle prod and zap everyone.

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Time to start bashing heads in

thats how we dealt with "Dissidents" in USSR

 

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Does anyone see a way out for Hong Kong? Their sovereignty reverses completely to China eventually and no one is in a meaningful position to stop China from resorting to a very heavy hand.

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I was talking to Cao about this before and we reckon Xi won't be stupid enough to go full Tienanmen Square on Hong Kong because if he did, the entire island would rise in revolt and the only way to fix THAT would be to hammer down the island and THAT would definitely spark a world war.  

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1 hour ago, EagleMan said:

Does anyone see a way out for Hong Kong? Their sovereignty reverses completely to China eventually and no one is in a meaningful position to stop China from resorting to a very heavy hand.

 

Well there is some hope. China isn't interested in crushing Hong Kong as neither the territory nor the population is that valuable in and of itself. It's valuable as a international financial center and that might not last if they become just another piece of China. Currently they are under a British-style judiciary that is highly independent. This creates quite a bit of trust. What would happen if that trust were to disappear?

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Apparently Hong Kong's days as a key financial hub are numbered due to the island administration not adopting certain reforms. I can't remember what these reforms were but I vaguely remember that being an issue which lessened the city's importance in the eyes of Beijing. 

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A wall at the University of Auckland where students could post thoughts and messages of support for those involved in protests in Hong Kong has been vandalised.

So-called 'Lennon Walls' provide a space where individuals can post peaceful messages about protests currently underway in Hong Kong.

While the Lennon Walls began appearing around the world during the 2014 Hong Kong democracy protests, more have popped up in the wake of massive protests in Hong Kong over the last month against a Bill allowing Hong Kongers to be extradited to China for trial.

One has now been vandalised at the University of Auckland following demonstrations at the campus on Tuesday in support of the Hong Kong protests.

Pictures sent to Newshub show the Lennon Wall filled with colourful post-it-notes and messages before they were torn down as well as an image of the wall after the vandals struck.

v2-supplied-lennon-wall-auckland-univers

v3-supplied-lennon-wall-auckland-univers

 

The University of Auckland told Newshub three men "were seen ripping the posters off the walls before running towards Princes St with them" on Tuesday night.

"Security attended and spoke with a witness but we don't have any information about them or where they are from at this stage."

Newshub has been told the three individuals were Chinese and from other universities.

It's not the first Lennon Wall to be vandalised since protests began in Hong Kong in June. University of Queensland students were shocked when a wall at their campus was plastered with offensive remarks.

About 100 people turned out to the Auckland protest on Tuesday afternoon. It was a mostly peaceful affair, but there was a confrontation when a pro-Beijing man appeared holding a sign saying "Hong Kong independence mob".

A similar protest at the university last week became physical as students clashed over the Hong Kong Bill and Beijing's influence in the city.

Video shows pro-Chinese government students verbally threatening another group of students before pushing protest organiser Serena Lee to the ground.

The China Consulate in Auckland later released a statement praising the "spontaneous patriotism" of the students standing up for China. Lee told Newshub she has received death threats since the demonstration.

The University of Auckland says a formal investigation is underway into last week's demonstration and the students involved have been spoken to. A police spokesperson told Newshub that police have spoken with the complainant and will be investigating the incident in due course.

However the China Consulate has slammed New Zealand media reports of the incident and the events in Hong Kong as "biased". 

"The Consulate General strongly condemns the use of the recent situation in Hong Kong, under the pretext of so-called academic freedom and freedom of expression, on the university campus to engage in smearing attacks on the Chinese government and the Hong Kong SAR government, inciting anti-China sentiment, and creating opposition between Chinese and Hong Kong students," a translated version of the Chinese text said.

"The Consulate General wishes to reiterate here that Hong Kong is China's Hong Kong and that Hong Kong affairs are China's internal affairs, and no external forces can interfere."

Lennon Walls originated in Prague following the assassination of John Lennon, becoming a symbol of peace and love. This served as an inspiration for the 2014 Hong Kong Lennon Walls.

Newshub.

 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/08/university-of-auckland-hong-kong-lennon-wall-allegedly-vandalised-by-chinese-students.html

 

Personal Comment From Bors:

 

I had to guard that Consulate General Motherfucker when he came for a meeting with the Vice Chancellor. Just Me. Because it had to be low key...Oh and there is no allegedly about it, the shit was vandalised by Pro-Beijing students and plants. 

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23 hours ago, Baledwyr said:

I was talking to Cao about this before and we reckon Xi won't be stupid enough to go full Tienanmen Square on Hong Kong because if he did, the entire island would rise in revolt and the only way to fix THAT would be to hammer down the island and THAT would definitely spark a world war.  

I don't think it would spark a world war, nor is anyone likely to militarily oppose anything China does in regards to Hong Kong.

 

What makes this time different from Tienanmen Square is that a harsh crackdown would endanger China's bid for superpower status. If China was still undeveloped, the international order generally wouldn't care just as they don't for other atrocities that occur today, but China doing a similar crackdown now (when Western media is also already prepped to report live on the situation) would invite the possibility of the world uniting against China diplomatically. Long-lasting damage would be done to China's reputation and the Belt & Road initiative would be endangered.

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It's interesting that expressions of interest from people in Hong Kong wanting to emigrate permanently from the island to New Zealand are now at their highest point since 1997. 

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Even if this protest blows over completely in Hong Kong's favor somehow, the long-term loss of independence is still in place. If people didn't have plans already, the average (capable) person is going to have an exit plan in place by 2047. What ultimately happens with Hong Kong will be interesting, but interesting in a "bad things may happen" sense. I hope the worst case scenario is just brain drain - that China basically lets everyone who wants to self-deport in a sense. Otherwise as China continues to take advantage of modern tech to enforce its authoritarian regime, the disparities between the mainland and HK will continue to grow and grow (with a possibly intractable gulf already existing), making peaceful reintegration unlikely.

 

Since China is huge on territorial sovereignty and expansion, but also wanting to become a global leader, it leaves them few good options for dealing with an insurrection in Hong Kong. Encouraging dissidents to emigrate to another country over the course of the next 3 decades could be their best bet for avoiding a conflagration that could spiral out of control in a million different ways.

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Apparently Hong Kong protesters beat an unconscious man on the ground in the airport because they thought he supported mainland China. They also detained and beat what turned out to be a reporter from mainland China. Man those assholes are really handing the situation to China on a silver platter. A couple more incidents like that and China can bring in troops with the rest of the world's support. 

 

https://www.apnews.com/a4ad41c1f940459f810111ddc2eea825

 

 

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I haven't been following Hong Kong news closely, but there's definitely a tinge of throwing the baby out with the bathwater attitude I'm feeling from Hong Kongers. I think they were right to come out and protest a law but now that the law has been repealed, they're really pushing their luck by staying out in the streets, shutting things down and getting violent (some, not all). It may affect the current arrangement they have with China. I just don't see a case where there is a net gain for HK after all this conflict. 

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44 minutes ago, Abdel said:

I haven't been following Hong Kong news closely, but there's definitely a tinge of throwing the baby out with the bathwater attitude I'm feeling from Hong Kongers. I think they were right to come out and protest a law but now that the law has been repealed, they're really pushing their luck by staying out in the streets, shutting things down and getting violent (some, not all). It may affect the current arrangement they have with China. I just don't see a case where there is a net gain for HK after all this conflict. 

 

I'm concenred also that the particular case over which this came up was a murder... you really want to protect a murderer from justice?

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@Feanor I don't think they're trying to protect a murderer from justice, I think they're against both murder and extradition to mainland China. I think they view the law as a slippery slope towards punishing Hong Kongers through extradition to China rather than retaining their sovereignty in this regard. 

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44 minutes ago, Abdel said:

@Feanor I don't think they're trying to protect a murderer from justice, I think they're against both murder and extradition to mainland China. I think they view the law as a slippery slope towards punishing Hong Kongers through extradition to China rather than retaining their sovereignty in this regard. 

 

They don't really have sovereignty. They're unequivocally part of China, just with a special set of governing rules in place. For now.

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Thats true. Like I said I need to read up on this topic but there seem to be areas of greater conflict in the world so this one hasn't really seemed that important to me. 

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2 hours ago, Abdel said:

I haven't been following Hong Kong news closely, but there's definitely a tinge of throwing the baby out with the bathwater attitude I'm feeling from Hong Kongers. I think they were right to come out and protest a law but now that the law has been repealed, they're really pushing their luck by staying out in the streets, shutting things down and getting violent (some, not all). It may affect the current arrangement they have with China. I just don't see a case where there is a net gain for HK after all this conflict. 

Unless there was a new development I haven't read, "repealing" the bill was a sort of purposeful mistranslation. They more so officially stopped work on the extradition bill rather than withdrew it.

 

Also I'm not sure why you would hold that type of protest against them. Protest is only effective when it can't be ignored, e.g. blocking streets and airports. Isolated incidents of violence is pretty much inevitable with spontaneous mass protests no matter how peaceful they are, as no one controls the 100k+ who have protested, and with that many people, idiots and misread situations are inevitable. If people give the police slack, we can give some to the protesters too.

 

I do strain to think though on how this could all end well for HK, not simply the protests, but their overall situation as a political entity long-term.

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Under the British, the Royal Hong Kong Police were accounted as some of the best in the world and immediately following the British withdrawal, those cops were all replaced almost at once by new ones from the mainland more sympathetic to Beijing and the PRC.  

 

Related image

Related image

 

If Winnie the Ping has sent troops to reinforce the garrison in Hong Kong then once again he has violated the terms of the handover treaty - there are only supposed to be a maximum of 6000 PLA soldiers garrisoned in Hong Kong at any one time. 

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