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Evad_Flor

Second chance faction allied to winners

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Posted (edited)

In the future there's going to be more "second chances" added into the game. However, there's only a few ideas left that makes sense to have as a solo faction. There are lots ideas that only makes sense if the second chance faction is an ally to someone else already playing. These allies would have limits on it's max strength and be pushed into supportive & utility roles. Weak, but useful.

 

Scourge & Legion

- Satyrs

 

Lordaeron, Dalaran and High Elves

- Gilneas Worgen (North Alliance)

*Only if High Elves choose to go Naga

 

Sentinels & Druids

- Draenei on Azuremyst Isle & Bloodmyst Isle

Frostwolf & Warsong

- Goblins

 

Stormwind & Dwarves

- Gilneas Worgen (South Alliance)

or

- Dark Iron Clan

 

Fel Horde

- Dark Horde / Blackrock

or

- Outland Demons + Portals

 

In this format, the faction must first win the starting fight for their extra ally to be unlocked. So if you're Horde for example, you must destroy Feathermoon, Darnassus and capture Nordrassil to unlock Goblin ally option. These are just some ideas worth exploring more but I believe that the general concept is the right step forward.

 

Idea explanation:

Gilneas Worgen will have 2 options on who to be allied with, only one can be picked.  You either pick South Alliance or North Alliance as your ally.

 

Dark Iron Clan can be developed into a separate mini faction with a larger base inside Blackrock Mountain. The Explorer's Hall option would of course be replaced with something else such as Gelbin Mekkatorque or Brann Bronzebeard choices.

 

Goblins would get the base Kezan, Ratchet and perhaps Bilgewater Port in Azshara's Coast. Heroes would be Tradeprince Gallywix and Gazlowe. Would be a faction focused on compound interest rates, mercantilism and bombs.

 

Blackrock Mountain could have another orc base inside the Dungeon. You could make another orc base in Twilight Highlands, Dragonmaw Port. The other option would be to give your mini ally a Demon faction that's only about using demonic portals and demons from Outland.

 

Edited by Evad_Flor
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really like it, honestly. Second Chances as they stand are in a weird design space where they have to start off quite powerful in order to gain enough of a threshold to survive, which makes keeping them down incredibly annoying for victorious players. If some were required to have an ally they could be much weaker and participate in the primary conflict rather than relying on their underdog status. Perhaps we could see late game conflicts where defeated players congregate into the winning teams, resulting in a larger grand conflict at the end. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, YakaryBovine said:

really like it, honestly. Second Chances as they stand are in a weird design space where they have to start off quite powerful in order to gain enough of a threshold to survive, which makes keeping them down incredibly annoying for victorious players. If some were required to have an ally they could be much weaker and participate in the primary conflict rather than relying on their underdog status. Perhaps we could see late game conflicts where defeated players congregate into the winning teams, resulting in a larger grand conflict at the end. 

 

 

Exactly. At the end of it, it might be a 4vs4 with the whole map still at war.

You can also go even more crazy creative with the faction ideas. These factions could for example be limited to max 100 food. You could create a worgen faction specialized in assasinating heroes. You could create goblin faction specialized at "investing money" which 2 minutes later comes back as 125% of the invested gold and then be an economic ally. You could create a Zandalar faction that's specialized in navy warfare. You could create a Dark Iron faction good at combining items to make stronger items or be good at dealing lots of fire damage.

 

Edited by Evad_Flor

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I like parts of the idea, but there are a number of concerns that stop me from wanting to do it:

first, It buffs the power level of a faction by a good bunch. This means that: 1. i have to make C'thun, Fel horde and Naga way stronger to be able on equal strength as 3 man teams, and 2 It's a problem because i am working on a big overhaul system that will buff all factions by quite a bit from now, this makes me wary of the power curves.

 

Second, it would happen too often that 2 winners fight, but 1 had his enemy ally with him and the other not, making the fight unbalanced. Example: Night Elves win, no one allies them. South Alliance wins, they get an additional ally, they fight is then skewed towards South Alliance, where it wouldnt be before.

 

What i like from the idea is introducing minor factions that can ally in second chance. That will enable us to introduce factions that would never be possible as a full faction, i will think about it.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Lordsebas said:

I like parts of the idea, but there are a number of concerns that stop me from wanting to do it:

first, It buffs the power level of a faction by a good bunch. This means that: 1. i have to make C'thun, Fel horde and Naga way stronger to be able on equal strength as 3 man teams, and 2 It's a problem because i am working on a big overhaul system that will buff all factions by quite a bit from now, this makes me wary of the power curves.

 

Second, it would happen too often that 2 winners fight, but 1 had his enemy ally with him and the other not, making the fight unbalanced. Example: Night Elves win, no one allies them. South Alliance wins, they get an additional ally, they fight is then skewed towards South Alliance, where it wouldnt be before.

 

What i like from the idea is introducing minor factions that can ally in second chance. That will enable us to introduce factions that would never be possible as a full faction, i will think about it.


 

What affects the balance more? Sudden solo factions appearing out of thin air and attacking you or one of your enemies having an extra mini-ally?

 

If you're Horde and you just finished NIght Elves, I think C'thun is a much bigger impact on the balance than South Alliance having one extra small ally. Same could be applied to any of the solo factions and their invasion plans. If you're Lordaeron it must suck a lot when Rise of the Ashes suddenly appear in Quel'Thalas while you're fighting Fel Horde. I would argue that this is worse than a supportive mini ally on the enemy side.

 

It's something worth thinking about. Perhaps we've already added things that affects the balance far more than a tiny ally?

 

 

Edited by Evad_Flor

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No, i disagree. A small change affecting a bigger force has more balance implications than a single mid to high force.

Let me explain it with completly hypothetical numbers:

 

C'thun is a 18 power level
Horde is 18 together. (9 for each player)

 

The fight is still equal here.

 

but instead, if we have:
horde 18

south alliance 24 (9 per player + 6 from draenei)

 

then we have a definite power difference that wasn't present before. 

 

The main problem is not wheter an enemy appears or not, but if an enemy has overwhelming power, which is what could happen if a third player joined the South Alliance + their tiers.
 

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