Jump to content
EagleMan

Legends of the Second War Overhaul in Progress - Feature List Inside

Recommended Posts

Not much lately but things in my life are settling down to allow me to establish a work routine again for the map. The Horde is basically done, and fixing and updating all the object data for the Alliance players should prove to be a far quicker process since I already know what I want to do (and a good deal of work was foundational). I'll ignore most of the gameplay changes I wanted to implement just for the sake of getting the thing out. Plus since it's been a while since I've seen a lot of the gameplay, it'd probably give me a more informed idea of how certain systems and mechanics would work out if I have fresh memories of how people are playing and how newbs would be approaching the map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still in development and being worked on, just takes time to do all the detail work overhauling this much object data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EagleMan said:

Still in development and being worked on, just takes time to do all the detail work overhauling this much object data.

When do you think a testable version may be ready ? Bolvar and I were also curious if there's any older version of the map still playable or if they were all permanently borked

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Spankfurt said:

When do you think a testable version may be ready ? Bolvar and I were also curious if there's any older version of the map still playable or if they were all permanently borked

As for why the map is broken, then to reiterate for the record, a Blizzard update broke a lot of caster units in the game (e.g. Forest Troll High Priest), such that when you select them, the game crashes. That issue has been resolved so far in my development, and if it recurs it seems easily fixable. I didn't just patch that though because the Blizzard patches also broke custom editors and some of their tricks, such as letting all rock tile be unpathable through a setting. I had to lay down over 10k pathing blockers to resolve the issue permanently (I didn't want to do a workaround in case further Blizzard updates broke things again). So I didn't want to commit to that sort of dull work without also modernizing the map and fixing under-the-hood stuff, with a few quirks to differentiate it from other strategy maps.

 

For a testable version, I feel like with a good, few, focused, dedicated work periods, it could be at a testable state. I can't promise a specific time table but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. For the sake of collecting actionable feedback ASAP I am likely to do beta testing completely public, with the hope that people understand that I don't have the benefit of a known meta to work off of, and that I will work towards active patching based on feedback provided.

 

What is likely to slow me down is trying to theorycraft a good foundation to build off of for the economy and faction balance. It won't be perfect from the start but I want the foundation to be there. The economy has been in turmoil for a very long time, as the map has changed economic systems several times, with it changed again, so I'll have to be ready to tinker with that.  For faction balance, the full pro 6v6 competitive scene (that I was a part of at least) died out a long time ago. So the past few years of LOTSW playing I have had has been at best in semi-good lobbies - maybe 4-8 players who know what they're doing. That allowed a lot of chaos in the games making it hard to tell specific balance changes needed, so I'm also trying to have the map be able to cope with that kind of chaos. This is all a lot of shooting in the dark though, I'm just trying for a good and interesting foundation - implementing feedback from testing and play will be very helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, EagleMan said:

As for why the map is broken, then to reiterate for the record, a Blizzard update broke a lot of caster units in the game (e.g. Forest Troll High Priest), such that when you select them, the game crashes. That issue has been resolved so far in my development, and if it recurs it seems easily fixable. I didn't just patch that though because the Blizzard patches also broke custom editors and some of their tricks, such as letting all rock tile be unpathable through a setting. I had to lay down over 10k pathing blockers to resolve the issue permanently (I didn't want to do a workaround in case further Blizzard updates broke things again). So I didn't want to commit to that sort of dull work without also modernizing the map and fixing under-the-hood stuff, with a few quirks to differentiate it from other strategy maps.

 

For a testable version, I feel like with a good, few, focused, dedicated work periods, it could be at a testable state. I can't promise a specific time table but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. For the sake of collecting actionable feedback ASAP I am likely to do beta testing completely public, with the hope that people understand that I don't have the benefit of a known meta to work off of, and that I will work towards active patching based on feedback provided.

 

What is likely to slow me down is trying to theorycraft a good foundation to build off of for the economy and faction balance. It won't be perfect from the start but I want the foundation to be there. The economy has been in turmoil for a very long time, as the map has changed economic systems several times, with it changed again, so I'll have to be ready to tinker with that.  For faction balance, the full pro 6v6 competitive scene (that I was a part of at least) died out a long time ago. So the past few years of LOTSW playing I have had has been at best in semi-good lobbies - maybe 4-8 players who know what they're doing. That allowed a lot of chaos in the games making it hard to tell specific balance changes needed, so I'm also trying to have the map be able to cope with that kind of chaos. This is all a lot of shooting in the dark though, I'm just trying for a good and interesting foundation - implementing feedback from testing and play will be very helpful.

Thanks for the feedback Eagle. We have a lot of people who would play regularly and are looking forward to the game. I've spoken to some of the old faces and people like Railen and Fluff would gladly come back to play this with the community 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say the work is about 90% done. I'm going over the Dwarves now as the last race to fix up, and I'm also backtracking to the Horde to implement a gameplay mechanic I put in for the Alliance. Plus I have to review all and update all the trigger work. Those are the big ticket items left to do, but the last 10% can also take longer, since I'm reviewing all my work and trying to fix mistakes and things I missed, meaning I have to change my focus constantly instead of handling one thing at a time (not that it needs to be perfect, but I know that with a map of this size, there's only so much feedback I will get outside of balance issues). However at some point I do just have to call it and stop the polish, which I'm prepared to do - it's just easy to get distracted by polish instead of committing myself to finishing a big ticket item. It's best to try get that stuff done in one block of time so you don't get lost trying to pick up where you left off a week or two later. I'm still dreading whether or not to number crunch unit costs/stats compared to income and how that compares to every other faction, or if I should just let it fly and try to balance it rapidly based on feedback. I know that without a full pro scene that the numbers won't matter too much compared to the strategic/tactical decisions people make and how they cooperate with allies, but feedback for that will probably be most important for the Elf/Troll fight since that's a more stable 1v1 compared to the chaos that can unfold everywhere else.

 

Even if the map is dead on arrival it's still stimulating intellectually to handle this beast of a map which is why I'm not really concerned about how much it will be played although obviously I would prefer a healthy community. I know my meta-strategy theories don't always play out well in practice but it's enjoyable to have an excuse to muck around with asymmetrical strategy game design. Strategy games have a place in my heart as they do for most of us here, and with how much the gaming industry has changed over the years, it's sort of peculiar to consider that I'm one of the few people left in the world working on a strategy game (even if it's just an extremely glorified mod). At this point I'm more worried I won't put enough effort into promoting the map since marketing work isn't as gratifying to me, although I will probably just leave my computer on at times to host a download lobby which is easy. If it comes to be the case that I give up on promotion I'm also prepared to release this remake unprotected (as well as any prior versions I have if requested) for other motivated people to work with or steal/learn from. Plus I'm happy to mentor, although I'm useless for triggers which is where most people want the help, so I just try to advise people that the fundamentals (the look, feel and experience of the map) are more important than complicated systems. People don't see behind the hood so don't kill yourself with that work as you can spend hours and hours trying to make something work, which results in having to toss it all to cut your losses or going deep down the rabbit hole which can cause burnout.

 

Also I am communicating more about LOTSW Reforged than the WC3 Reforged devs are, so I'm feeling good about my pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, EagleMan said:

I would say the work is about 90% done. I'm going over the Dwarves now as the last race to fix up, and I'm also backtracking to the Horde to implement a gameplay mechanic I put in for the Alliance. Plus I have to review all and update all the trigger work. Those are the big ticket items left to do, but the last 10% can also take longer, since I'm reviewing all my work and trying to fix mistakes and things I missed, meaning I have to change my focus constantly instead of handling one thing at a time (not that it needs to be perfect, but I know that with a map of this size, there's only so much feedback I will get outside of balance issues). However at some point I do just have to call it and stop the polish, which I'm prepared to do - it's just easy to get distracted by polish instead of committing myself to finishing a big ticket item. It's best to try get that stuff done in one block of time so you don't get lost trying to pick up where you left off a week or two later. I'm still dreading whether or not to number crunch unit costs/stats compared to income and how that compares to every other faction, or if I should just let it fly and try to balance it rapidly based on feedback. I know that without a full pro scene that the numbers won't matter too much compared to the strategic/tactical decisions people make and how they cooperate with allies, but feedback for that will probably be most important for the Elf/Troll fight since that's a more stable 1v1 compared to the chaos that can unfold everywhere else.

 

Even if the map is dead on arrival it's still stimulating intellectually to handle this beast of a map which is why I'm not really concerned about how much it will be played although obviously I would prefer a healthy community. I know my meta-strategy theories don't always play out well in practice but it's enjoyable to have an excuse to muck around with asymmetrical strategy game design. Strategy games have a place in my heart as they do for most of us here, and with how much the gaming industry has changed over the years, it's sort of peculiar to consider that I'm one of the few people left in the world working on a strategy game (even if it's just an extremely glorified mod). At this point I'm more worried I won't put enough effort into promoting the map since marketing work isn't as gratifying to me, although I will probably just leave my computer on at times to host a download lobby which is easy. If it comes to be the case that I give up on promotion I'm also prepared to release this remake unprotected (as well as any prior versions I have if requested) for other motivated people to work with or steal/learn from. Plus I'm happy to mentor, although I'm useless for triggers which is where most people want the help, so I just try to advise people that the fundamentals (the look, feel and experience of the map) are more important than complicated systems. People don't see behind the hood so don't kill yourself with that work as you can spend hours and hours trying to make something work, which results in having to toss it all to cut your losses or going deep down the rabbit hole which can cause burnout.

 

Also I am communicating more about LOTSW Reforged than the WC3 Reforged devs are, so I'm feeling good about my pace.

I'd be curious to see how much time you've sunk into this project Eagle. If you need any help with marketing, or moreso just want someone to put in the gruntwork and get word around / build excitement I'd be happy to start that. Once you're ready for the initial games to see how things are going to be received we can have a large'ish community of people ready to Lostw again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the time that goes into it is just the time that a normal person "wastes" on TV, movies and videos and the like and some of the downtime between going out. It's just a little bit more of "active" relaxation compared to that with music playing. Regardless we have all put too much time into WC3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, EagleMan said:

Most of the time that goes into it is just the time that a normal person "wastes" on TV, movies and videos and the like and some of the downtime between going out. It's just a little bit more of "active" relaxation compared to that with music playing. Regardless we have all put too much time into WC3.

I remember The-King telling me back in 2009/2010 that he had over 100 days logged in wc3. I think at this point Jimmy has over 1000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forget what the command was you can enter while logged in to see your time spent on the account. I tried going through the command help tree once to find it but struck out, I thought maybe they removed it if you remember what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, EagleMan said:

I forget what the command was you can enter while logged in to see your time spent on the account. I tried going through the command help tree once to find it but struck out, I thought maybe they removed it if you remember what it is.

No I don't, and I'd be disappointed at the number. Blizzard killed my original Spankfurt account in 2011-2012 sometime as I didn't log in for a year. It was when sc2 came out and they made you digitally install wc3 through your battle.net account. Back then I was smoking a lot of weed with Honksaru and not in a state to do much of anything or figure anything out. My OG Spank account was closing in on the 750 NE win Avatar and probably already had well over 100 days

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only bothered with the Rifleman, but eventually on my West coast account the textures bugged out and he had some sort of green camo pattern which was cool, a bit like the purple texture pattern you might recall from some Counterstrike type games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see the light at the end of the tunnel and am just trying to power through to get the map to a playable state at this point.

  • Creative 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/8/2019 at 5:37 PM, EagleMan said:

I forget what the command was you can enter while logged in to see your time spent on the account. I tried going through the command help tree once to find it but struck out, I thought maybe they removed it if you remember what it is.

 

I found it, it's /gdpr-account-info . You are then asked to type /gdpr-account-info request, which provides you with a confirmation code and is supposed to send an email associated with your account. It might send an email to you but it didn't for mine.

Edited by Talinn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember when I asked for this end of July, so I could play it. And here I fucking am dying in November and still no LoTSW.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...