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Baledwyr

Ongoing saga of Christchurch Massacre

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I have never felt so proud of New Zealand. Up and down the country yesterday were held vigils in mosques and thousands of people turned out to lay flowers outside those places and stand in a two minute silence, holding hands and praying for the victims. The Muslim Call To Prayer was broadcast live on Radio National NZ and on TVNZ at the same time all across the country.

On our Campus, we had a vigil in the recreation centre where an Imam gave a service and preached tolerance and unity while outside hundreds and hundreds of people, students and staff stood in silence around the rec centre and on the other side of the street. I have never felt so much emotion in the air in my life. We had five armed police working with us and 15 guards in and around the rec centre. I was standing on the door to the rec centre, we expected there might be some arsehole try something, but again to NZ's credit - nothing, not one arsehole. Everyone was respectful, everyone was there to assure the Muslims that they were as much apart of us as we were of them. Towards the end, I walked into the main rec centre and I saw the Imam consoling a female student who was in tears and at that moment I had to turn around and walk out cause I could feel myself about to break. It was that emotionally charged. 

As they exited the rec centre, the students all thanked us, thanked the police and one girl insisted on buying me and another female colleague a chocolate bar each despite our assurances that it wasn't necessary.

New Zealand's response has been exemplary and from what i saw on Friday, I think the country while sad, is feeling a renewed sense of unity and hope - one Imam actually began his service in maori and later said that no matter our colour or religion we were all New Zealanders and we all lived under the long white cloud. 

The shooter wanted to start some sort of race war here, but he had the exact opposite affect. One of New Zealand's biggest gangs, the Mongrel Mob, has had a historically rocky relationship with the police - pledged that its members would stand guard outside Muslim Mosques - so you had a bizarre but heartening sight of patched gang members standing on guard alongside armed police officers - with no animosity. 

 

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I don t think the shooter had the intention to start a race war in NZ as NZ has a relatively homogenous population

his intentions was to stir up the people elsewhere in the globe particularly in USA an Europe if he was successful remains to be seen 

Political and Social climate in Europe and USA at these days is at dangerous levels and every radical attack just stirs up more discontent and unrest even if it happens in NZ

 

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It gets tricky. There is a slowly rising trend of anti-Islamic terrorism, partially in response to Islamic terrorism. And it's hard to say what the particular goals of any one shooter are, but the bigger picture is an unfortunate one.

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Posted (edited)

The core motivation of any shooter is an attempt to schizophrenically overtake reality from any perceived threats to his sense of self, rather than living in tune with the universe at large.

 

It's just that this person incorporated alt-right ideology into his identity.

 

It's an important distinction to make.

Edited by Talinn
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While the attack was obviously anti-Islamic it's pretty clear from his words that the larger issue is White Nationalism and Islamophobia is just one element of it. It was the same with the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter: it wasn't just an attack against one specific group alone but rather against all those who are othered in mainstream Western society (as he described it the "invaders").

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Problem there is, these people weren't Jihadi warriors or strangers, they were part of the community, they lived and worked in the community, they didn't try to section themselves off, which is why it shocked everyone so much more - they weren't "othered". Half the guards we get from our contract security company when we need extra staff are Pakistani muslims and we all get on fine.

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Supremacist ideology is a disease. Islamists speak along the same terms: "The west is invading our lands",  "we have to defend our religion and culture",  "the jews want to replace us". 

 

Its amazing how much they have in common although they loathe each other 

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Every aspect of society is like this though.

 

"The Trump is invading our lands" (anti trumpers)

 

" we have to defend our failing math and science scores among America's youth " (scientists/educators)

 

"the tree hugging hippies want to replace us". (corporate CEOs)

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@Abdel They have that in common too.

 

10 hours ago, Abdel said:

they loathe each other 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Baledwyr said:

Problem there is, these people weren't Jihadi warriors or strangers, they were part of the community, they lived and worked in the community, they didn't try to section themselves off, which is why it shocked everyone so much more - they weren't "othered". Half the guards we get from our contract security company when we need extra staff are Pakistani muslims and we all get on fine.

 

"Othered" in the sense that they are considered less American/Australian/Kiwi/etc. because they don't fit the standard definition for one reason or another. If they weren't "others" in the country then they wouldn't have been singled out as a target for an attack. The shooters whole shtik was purging "foreigners".

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@Bild I disagree. Its clash of civilizations level of delusion, not othering or otherism. He himself was a man from Australia so we cant argue this hatred was homegrown. Infact @Baledwyr tells me there is much animosity towards Australians in NZ

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@Abdel The psychological and genetic discussion on the idea of the “other” is fascinating. We lived in an environment for millennia upon millennia where it was evolutionarily correct to be prejudiced against people not of your tribe, due to the high probably of them being infected with disease and pathogens that you are not apt to deal with, along with the fact that they could just decide to kill you. But now that same genetic code and behavior pattern is playing itself out in a world that is far more comfortable and disconnected from its evolutionary roots.

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13 hours ago, Baledwyr said:

Problem there is, these people weren't Jihadi warriors or strangers, they were part of the community, they lived and worked in the community, they didn't try to section themselves off, which is why it shocked everyone so much more - they weren't "othered". Half the guards we get from our contract security company when we need extra staff are Pakistani muslims and we all get on fine.

 

The shooter actually din t pick christchurch at random there was a reasoning for his attack on this area

According to him and some police investigations in France the islamist attackers who carried out an attack in France with truck rampage were radicalized in Al Noor Mosque.

Which is why he chose christchurch as main target as he seen Al Noor Mosque as Wahabist influenced mosque.

There was also a Mossad ring found in christchurch a few years ago back when there was an earthquake in christchurch

so there is a whole lot of anomalies happening in christchurch

 

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This is New Zealand, this isn't France. No one cares if a woman walks down the street with a veil any more than people care if a woman walks down the street in booty shorts on a hot summer day.

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38 minutes ago, Baledwyr said:

This is New Zealand, this isn't France. No one cares if a woman walks down the street with a veil any more than people care if a woman walks down the street in booty shorts on a hot summer day.

 

I'm not sure that's strictly speaking true. I would accept that the vast majority don't care, and at the social level neither is condemned, but to say that literally not a single person would care, is probably not true. After all someone cared enough to shoot up a whole mosque.

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Someone that wasn't from New Zealand and moved here specifically for the act.

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On 3/24/2019 at 10:08 AM, Abdel said:

He himself was a man from Australia so we cant argue this hatred was homegrown. Infact @Baledwyr tells me there is much animosity towards Australians in NZ

 

Thus the "White Nationalism"; the nation he was trying to protect was his skin color.

 

Also:

>implying there's any meaningful difference between Australians and New Zealanders

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@Bild There's a difference between him imposing his ideology on people, in this case, white New Zealanders, and them actually sharing those views. I think white New Zealanders made it pretty clear they reject him. 

Its not fair to lump in New Zealanders as beneficiaries of an ideology that they do not share or espouse. 

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25 minutes ago, Abdel said:

@Bild There's a difference between him imposing his ideology on people, in this case, white New Zealanders, and them actually sharing those views. I think white New Zealanders made it pretty clear they reject him. 

Its not fair to lump in New Zealanders as beneficiaries of an ideology that they do not share or espouse. 

 

I'm not implying that most or even many New Zealanders feel as he does, but it's quite clear his mindset is a consequence of historical Eurocentrism.

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The British in New Zealand had a treaty with the Maoris. They fought a war and at the end of it got a treaty that united the Maori and British under one crown. The British in Australia did no such thing and I think that's where the difference comes from. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi

 

It has also been said that the difference between Australians an New Zealanders is that Aussies don't have a filter, where Kiwis do. 

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So this is what I was afraid of after the last rally in which the International Socialist Organisation got involved and started making what was a peaceful, respectful, heartfelt outpouring of grief, feel like a group of people who are all pissed off that they were born a century too late to storm the Winter Palace. 

 

This is a Christian poster I found on a notice board and when I saw it I got chills because it felt like the beginning of something very bad. I will be honest though, I don't think this was done by Muslims but by edgy atheists connected to the Socialist Organisation of Aotearoa.  This is the sort of shit we don't need right now. 

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