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EagleMan

Greece Player Limit Increase; Taking Faction Ideas

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For patch 1.29 it looks like the WC3 lobby system has a scroll option when you have lots of teams and players in a lobby, so adding more named teams shouldn't be an issue.

 

The editor has a limit on the number of neutral units/buildings that you can place which Greece surpasses, so that may be an issue for updating to patch 1.29. Many triggers also don't function as well when trying to save in the editor. It's possible we may have to wait for a new community modified editor, I don't have more details than that right now, so:

 

What new factions would you like to see added to Greece?

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I honestly thought that part of the appeal of Greece was that it was mostly just like...Greece.

 

I even thought about what it would be like if Italy was added and...meh.

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I don't think it'd be great to add more faction(s) unless the map is extended. But like Talinn is saying, I don't think adding whole new land masses like Italy would be great unless the aim is to create a new experience (almost like a sequel to a map). But I think extending the map a little more inwards to Anatolia could work, maybe extending the map to the right by 64x. Persia could start more east and there would be more space for 1 or 2 more factions.

 

But other than that I don't think there's much that could/should be done without completely changing the map.

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1st Greece lobbies are really hard to fill.

2nd Some of the slots are already kind of there just as fillers (in most games they get wiped), so imo the map as it is atm wouldn't gain anything by adding more players it would just ruin the gameplay. You would have to slow the game down for it to make sense or implement a real vassal system, so people don't die in the first 10min.

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There should def be another island nation, Naxos f example. I could even see 2 more island nations if the map size was to be expanded.

 

Roman Republic should be there too and maybe add Greek colonies of south italy too ( I have no idea what were the names of those colonies). I mean if you were to expand the size where is the limit? we could even see siracussa and have some of Archimedes engineering as special unit.

 

The possibilities are inmense tbh you should first say what are you planning to do in regards of expanding map size and adding new land masses. Ptolomean egypt should be a must if you were to expand the map btw.

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In theory a map expansion would be a reterrain to make everything bigger, especially so the Pelop peninsula is less crowded. It wouldn't be for adding distant lands and more ocean. But I'll have to see what sort of free time I have for that and how soon a new custom editor comes out. So for now 1-3 players could be added. With a bonus spot for myth mode of course.

 

12 players already isn't strictly necessary for a game of Greece anyways, people just assume full=balanced when it isn't. Missing Thessaly or Athens generally doesn't change the game too meaningfully since in the normal game you have a few people get stomped early on without much effort, or people otherwise leave for any reason.

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Egypt should be added, all the Greeks write of it and trade with it. Persia should be expanded and further east and Sardis should be a nation, croesus was known to be rich asf.

 

If some were to be added, only southern Italy and Sicily should be added considering that on Sicily is where Athens lost the Peloponnesian war.

 

So in essence, Egypt, Sardis, Rome and possibly Corinth as a new Greek.

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Corinth is probably a given but does crowd the area more, though ferries have given Athens easier room to expand and Thebes can go north.

I don't see why you would add Rome. They had basically 0 contact with the Greeks apart from trading with Sicily.

Basically the map is only quasi-historical and not set at any specific point which is why they suggest all that. The named heroes already span hundreds of years. The Greeks did have notable showings in France, Italy, Sicily, Egypt, Libya etc. I don't really want to add such far off lands though, especially because of the naval component.

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It would be a lot of work, but what about a series of maps with the Greece formula set in various other theaters? Instead of expanding this map, you could add a 14 player map that is the start of the Roman Republic Era, or a 16 player map that is the rise of the Macedonians (would include more of Anatolia). This way you can "expand" the map while no resetting it in terms of what's already working and is good.

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Yeah, I feel that a map based on the Mediterranean in general would be more appropriate. Not diving too much past the Near East / Anatolia is important because navy is so huge in Greece (to the theme of the map). Plus how well would Crete do if he's got Egypt to his south.

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Maybe copy lords of europe and have everyone spawn on an island in the southwest where they have 2 shops to pick their nations so you can see whats picked and pick accordingly? Along with having almost 24 preset capitals, and with how greece is played its not like youd need 24 players. Having a few missing doesnt change alot unlike AWLR for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Greek_cities I don't know of any major "city states" outside of the current ones however other than like corinth but thats represented by a capital anyways. Maybe just sporadically place a few capitals depending on high population count or at least some significant historic reason?

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The island thing solves people being happy to start when a lobby isn't "full". But it means you aren't guaranteed the slot of your choice which may lead to rage quitting. Probably the best outcome is being able to teach people the lobby doesn't need to be full to have a good game. Maybe arrange the "teams" so that if 3/4 slots on it are filled per team, the balance is good to go, e.g. if you're down 1 south Greek, 1 north Greek and 1 Asian the balance should work out okay compared to missing all of Asia.

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The island thing solves people being happy to start when a lobby isn't "full". But it means you aren't guaranteed the slot of your choice which may lead to rage quitting. Probably the best outcome is being able to teach people the lobby doesn't need to be full to have a good game. Maybe arrange the "teams" so that if 3/4 slots on it are filled per team, the balance is good to go, e.g. if you're down 1 south Greek, 1 north Greek and 1 Asian the balance should work out okay compared to missing all of Asia.

I honestly disagree. If the lobby isnt full the imbalance is pretty obvious as lets say argos not in game then sparta has a major advantadge towards thebes and athens, an advantadge that can be lost if they ally each other, same goes for the other zones. The balance on this map relies on the symetry on engages if you take that symetry out then the game isn't balanced and sure you can play it but it won't be a fair game.

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Maybe add some of the greek colonies as factions? for example Syracuse or one of those souther italian colonias, illirian colonies, even the one in gaul?

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