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Abdel

So a guy got arrested for making a video....

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Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything even remotely true. Facts schmacks!

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Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything even remotely true. Facts schmacks!

 

Oh god, it's a Bors-Steak hybrid... it's an abomination. Kill it with fire!

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Again..

Not really, there has been offered no facts, which have disproved what i was saying. I'm not saying the data is wrong. None of my statements needed any data if you actually read what i said. I am just not gonna bother since you're obviously trolling, i mean C'mon USSR was a good place to live compared to eastern european countries today?

It's like flat earth discussion.

Edited by Guest

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Again..

Not really, there has been offered no facts, which have disproved what i was saying. I'm not saying the data is wrong. None of my statements needed any data if you actually read what i said. I am just not gonna bother since you're obviously trolling, i mean C'mon USSR was a good place to live compared to eastern european countries today?

It's like flat earth discussion.

 

well there wasn t any poverty in USSR

and there is now

so arguably it was better

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well there wasn t any poverty in USSR

and there is now

so arguably it was better

Also gulag? no?

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Also gulag? no?

 

Modern day states have prison systems too. And while they're somewhat better, economic and technological progress doesn't stand still.

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Again..

Not really, there has been offered no facts, which have disproved what i was saying. I'm not saying the data is wrong. None of my statements needed any data if you actually read what i said. I am just not gonna bother since you're obviously trolling, i mean C'mon USSR was a good place to live compared to eastern european countries today?

It's like flat earth discussion.

 

Care to restate any factual claims you've made? Because I can't find any...

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Care to restate any factual claims you've made? Because I can't find any...

In this thread only when i pointed out that Complexity missed some pretty obvious irony.

Edited by Guest

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So they stopped suppressing political opponents with laborcamps after the end of Stalin?

 

Mostly.

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So they stopped suppressing political opponents with laborcamps after the end of Stalin?

They still haven't really stopped, they just jail them now.

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Mostly.

I'd really be curious about some relevant reading material - preferably not in russian - about Russias history during and after Stalin.

I've read a Danish historian's take on the time between 1917 and 1980 where a shitton occurs almost simultaneously, so my view of the USSR in that time is mostly extremely negative.

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I'd really be curious about some relevant reading material - preferably not in russian - about Russias history during and after Stalin.

I've read a Danish historian's take on the time between 1917 and 1980 where a shitton occurs almost simultaneously, so my view of the USSR in that time is mostly extremely negative.

 

It's a very large and complex time period where a great many things happened very quickly. It's also important to understand what Russia looked like prior to 1917. The USSR didn't form out of ideology and brutality. It was an organic outgrowth of what came before it. Unfortunately it's also a very politicized time period, meaning anything you read will likely carry the imprint of the political beliefs of the person who wrote it. And the USSR had such a profound effect globally that you can't turn to "neutral outsiders" because there aren't any. To be honest, I'm not aware of any single historic or even fictional work that would, by itself, give you the necessary insight into this rather lenthy, very complex, and very turbulent period of time which included a massive civil war, a world war, the industrialization of an incredibly backward peasant society at a speed that is absolutely breathtaking, and the consequent formation of Soviet society as something unique and distinct, though firmly rooted in the Russian Empire which came before it. I could get you started on a course of reading and cinematography, much of it very enjoyable, but it would take a considerable amount of time before you have anything approaching a comprehensive view on the subject. Hell just finding a solid and impartial history of the Russian Civil War is next to impossible.

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The USSR didn't form out of ideology and brutality. It was an organic outgrowth of what came before it.

Well in some ways it was a natural social development.. Except the killings you know. So you can't really say it didn't form through brutality.

Edited by Guest

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Well in some ways it was a natural social development.. Except the killings you know. So you can't really say it didn't form through brutality.

 

Read up a little on suppression of rebellions and public demonstrations in the Russian Empire. Or in France for that matter. Emile Zola has an excellent description of a miner's strike and it's suppression in Germinal, and their living conditions, in France.

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Read up a little on suppression of rebellions and public demonstrations in the Russian Empire. Or in France for that matter. Emile Zola has an excellent description of a miner's strike and it's suppression in Germinal, and their living conditions, in France.

It's just that revolutions tend not to be very peaceful. But sure.

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Well I'd be very interested in that, Feanor.

 

With regards to the USSR during Lenin and Stalin - did they not essentially fill the role of emperor elected by god as it was within the previous hegemony-type society?

 

I just have trouble seperating the religious bits of leninist-marxism from the various religions it denounces.

 

I have great difficulty believing that catholics were not atleast in some degree persecuted by the state after the death of Stalin.

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I have great difficulty believing that catholics were not atleast in some degree persecuted by the state after the death of Stalin.

 

Repression of Christianity was off and on depending on who was calling the shots at the time, but Islam and especially Judaism were constantly kept under heel.

 

When the mass emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union to Israel occurred the Israeli authorities were distraught to find that the “Russian Jews” were almost completely unfamiliar with basic concepts of Judaism due to state repression.

 

399880

Edited by Guest

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Repression of Christianity was off and on depending on who was calling the shots at the time, but Islam and especially Judaism were constantly kept under heel.

 

When the mass emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union to Israel occurred the Israeli authorities were distraught to find that the “Russian Jews” were almost completely unfamiliar with basic concepts of Judaism due to state repression.

 

399880

 

On the plus side, there is now a mild form is Islam in existence in post-Soviet states that allows for women's right, and consumption of alcohol.

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Marx was pretty clear, saying other wise is just disingenuous.

 

What exactly are you referring it? The religion and opium quote?

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